Third beta version of Debian Edu / Skolelinux based on Squeeze

4th February 2012

I am happy to announce that finally we managed today to wrap up and -publish the third beta version of -Debian Edu / Skolelinux based -on Squeeze. If you want to test a LDAP backed Kerberos server with -out of the box PXE configuration for running diskless machines and -installing new machines, check it out. If you need a software -solution for your school, check it out too. The full announcement is -available -on the project announcement list.

- -

I am very happy to report these changes and improvements since -beta2 (there are more, see announcement for full list):

- -

It is now possible to change the pre-configured IP subnet from - 10.0.0.0/8 to something else by using the subnet-change tool after - the installation.
Too full partitions are now automatically extended on the Main - Server, based on the rules specified in /etc/fsautoresizetab.
The CUPS queues are now automatically flushed every night, and all - disabled queues are restarted every hour. This should cut down on - the amount of manual administration needed for printers.
The set of initial users have been changed. Now a personal user - for the local system administrator is created during installation - instead of the previously created localadmin and super-admin users, - and this user is granted administrative privileges using group - membership. This reduces the number of passwords one need to keep - up to date on the system.

- -

The new main server seem to work so well that I am testing it as my -private DNS/LDAP/Kerberos/PXE/LTSP server at home. I will use it look -for issues we could fix to polish Debian Edu even further before the -final Squeeze release is published.

- -

Next weekend the project organise a -developer -gathering in Oslo. We will continue the work on the Squeeze -version, and start initial planning for the Wheezy version. Perhaps I -will see you there?

Debian Edu screencast: Checking email with kmail using Kerberos authentication

25th March 2012

+ +

The same Debian Edu developer that did the last screen cast I +published, Wolfgang Schweer, has created a new screen cast showing how +to set up Kmail in Debian Edu Squeze to authenticate using Kerberos, +allowing users to check their local email account without providing +any password. The video is embedded here in quarter size, +and also available from vimeo +and download as a +Ogg +Theora file. Check it out below.

+ +

Download video as + Ogg.

@@ -79,62 +51,56 @@ will see you there?

Handling non-free firmware in Debian Edu/Squeeze

27th January 2012

With some computer hardware, one need non-free firmware blobs. -This is the sad fact of todays computers. In the next version of -Debian Edu / Skolelinux based -on Squeeze, we provide several scripts and modifications to make -firmware blobs easier to handle. The common use case I run into is a -laptop with a wireless network card requiring non-free firmware to -work, but there are other use cases as well.

- -

First and foremost, Debian Edu provide ISO images for DVD and CD -with all firmware packages in the Debian sections main and non-free -included, to ensure debian-installer find and can install all of them -during installation. This take care firmware for network devices used -by the installer when installing from from local media. But for -example multimedia devices are not activated in the installer and are -not taken care of by this.

- -

For non-network devices, we provide the script -/usr/share/debian-edu-config/tools/auto-addfirmware which -search through the dmesg output for drivers requesting extra -firmware. The firmware file name is looked up in the Contents-ARCH.gz -file available in the package repository, and the packages providing -the requested firmware file(s) is installed. I have proposed to do -something similar in debian-installer (BTS report -#655507), to allow PXE -installs of Debian to handle firmware installation better. Run the -script as root from the command line to fetch and install the needed -firmware packages.

- -

Debian Edu provide PXE installation of Debian out of the box, and -because some machines need firmware to get their network cards -working, the installation initrd some times need extra firmware -included to be able to install at all. To fill the PXE installation -initrd with extra firmware, the -/usr/share/debian-edu-config/tools/pxe-addfirmware script is -provided. Again, just run it as root on the command line to fill the -PXE initrd with firmware packages.

- -

Last, some LTSP clients might also need firmware to get their -network cards working. For this, -/usr/share/debian-edu-config/tools/ltsp-addfirmware is -provided to update the LTSP initrd with firmware blobs. It is used -the same way as the other firmware related tools.

- -

At the moment, we do not run any of these during installation. We -do not know if this is acceptable for the local administrator to use -non-free software, and it is their choice.

- -

We plan to release beta3 this weekend. You might want to give it a -try.

StÃ¸rre PC-tetthet i skolen med Skolelinux?

19th March 2012

Den siste uka har det vÃ¦rt en del skriverier om hvor store +forskjeller det er mellom skolene nÃ¥r det gjelder digital kompetanse. +Et eksempel er +oppslaget +i Digi. Diskusjonen fikk meg til Ã¥ bli litt nysgjerrig pÃ¥ om +Linux-skoler har stÃ¸rre PC-tettet enn snittet i landet. Grunnlaget +for diskusjonen har vÃ¦rt undersÃ¸kelsen +Monitor +2011, som bruker informasjon fra +Grunnskolens Informasjonssystem +(GSI). GSI-data kan lastes ned fra web og jeg lastet ned en Excel-fil +(intet Ã¥pen standard-valg tilgjengelig) med navn pÃ¥ alle skoler, +hvilke kommune de befinner seg i og hvor mange elever pr. elev-PC de +har rapportert inn. For Ã¥ fÃ¥ en ide om svaret trenger jeg deretter Ã¥ +vite hvilke skoler i landet som bruker Linux, slik at jeg kan slÃ¥ dem +opp i GSI og finne ut hvor stor PC-tetthet de har.

+ +

Jeg vet om skoler i Balsfjord, Flora, Harstad, Kongsvinger, Narvik, +Nittedal, Nord-Odal, Randaberg og Sunndal som bruker Skolelinux eller +andre Linux-varianter. Jeg tror det er flere enn de 56 skolene jeg +har klart Ã¥ identifisere de siste dagene, men har ikke klart Ã¥ fÃ¥ det +bekreftet med offentlige kilder.

+ +

Monitor 2011-rapporteres side 95 forteller at det "ifÃ¸lge GSI +(20120-2011) er det 3,11 elever per datamaskin nÃ¥r vi tar med alle +grunnskoler (1.-10.trinn)". For de 56 Linux-skolene jeg har klart Ã¥ +koble mot informasjon i GSI er det 2,28 elever per elevdatamaskin, +hvilket betyr at det er 36% hÃ¸yere PC-tetthet pÃ¥ Linux-skoler enn +landsgjennomsnittet. Linux-skolen med hÃ¸yest tettet blant de jeg har +notert -skole er Flora ungdomsskule i Flora kommune med 0.82 elev +pr. PC (482 elever, 588 elevdatamaskiner).

+ +

Skolelinux gir datamaskiner lengre levetid, og en kan dermed fÃ¥ +flere operative datamaskiner for samme budsjett, i tillegg til en +rekke andre fordeler. Kan det vÃ¦re forklaringen pÃ¥ forskjellen?

+ +

Tallene mÃ¥ tas med en liten klype, da GSI ser ut til Ã¥ ha endel +feilfÃ¸ringer. Jeg synes i hvert fall en skole med 423 elever og 9 +elevmaskiner ser mistenkelig ut. Eller en skole med 346 elever, 0 +elevmaskiner, som er et annet ekstremt eksempel jeg fant.

+ +

Takk til Sturle Sunde, Klaus Ade Johnstad, Ole-Anders Andreassen og +Trond MÃ¦hlum for innspill om skoler med Linux.

- Tags: debian edu, english. + Tags: debian edu, norsk.

@@ -142,51 +108,90 @@ try.

Skjermbilder fra nordsamisk installasjon av Skolelinux/Squeeze

26th January 2012

For morro skyld har jeg gjennomfÃ¸rt en nordsamisk installasjon for -neste utgave av Skolelinux -(Squeeze) og knipset skjermbilder av resultatet.

- -

Som en kan se der er det noen oversettelser som mangler. Det hadde -vÃ¦rt hyggelig hvis alle tekstene som vises i Skolelinux-installasjonen -ble oversatt til nordsamisk, men for Ã¥ fÃ¥ det til mÃ¥ noen som forstÃ¥r -sprÃ¥ket melde seg til dyst. Det er mangel pÃ¥ nordsamiske oversettere -av fri programvare. Hvis noen starter raskt, sÃ¥ bÃ¸r en rekke Ã¥ -fullfÃ¸re Wheezy-utgaven fÃ¸r den gis ut. :)

- -

Se oversetterstatistikk for -debian installer for detaljert status. Jeg har tipset -epostlisten for samiskoversettelser, -men det har vÃ¦rt veldig liten aktivitet der de siste Ã¥rene.

- -

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Debian Edu interview: John Ingleby

19th March 2012

Debian Edu / Skolelinux +users are spread all across the globe. The second inteview after +the +Squeeze release was publised is with John Ingleby, a teacher and +long time Linux user in United Kingdom.

+ +

Who are you, and how do you spend your days?

+ +

I teach ICT part time at the Rudolf Steiner School in Kings +Langley, near London, UK. Previously I worked as a technical +author/trainer while my children attended the school, and I also +contributed to the Schoolforge UK community with the aim of +encouraging UK schools to adopt free/open source software. Five or six +years ago we had about 50 schools interested in some way, but we +weren't able to convert many of them into sustainable +installations.

+ +

How did you get in contact with the Skolelinux/Debian Edu +project?

+ +

Skolelinux had two representatives at an early Edubuntu meeting in +London which I attended. However at that time our school network had +just been installed using CentOS, LTSP 4 and GNOME. When LTSP 5 came +along we switched to Edubuntu thin client servers so now we have a +mixed environment which includes Windows PCs and student laptops, as +well as their MacBooks and iPads. However, the proprietary systems +have always been rather problematic, and we never built a GUI for the +LDAP server, so when I discovered Skolelinux is configured for all +these things we decided to try it.

+ +

What do you see as the advantages of Skolelinux/Debian +Edu?

+ +

By far the biggest advantage is the Debian Edu community. Apart +from that I have always believed in the same "sustainable computing" +goals that Skolelinux is built on: installing Linux on computers which +would otherwise be thrown away, to provide a reliable, secure and +low-cost IT environment for schools. From my own experience I know +that a part-time person can teach and manage a network of about 25 +Linux computers, but it would take much more of my time if we had +proprietary software everywhere.

+ +

What do you see as the disadvantages of Skolelinux/Debian +Edu?

+ +

As a newcomer I'm just finding out who's who in the community and +how you're organised, and what your procedures are for dealing with +various things such as editing manual pages and so-on. The only +English language mailing list seems to be for developers as well as +users, so my inbox needs heavy pruning each day!

+ +

Which free software do you use daily?

+ +

Besides the software already mentioned at school we use Samba, +OpenLDAP, CUPS, Nagios and Dansguardian for the network, and on the +desktops we have LibreOffice, Firefox, GIMP and Inkscape. At home I +use Ubuntu and an Android 4 eePad Transformer (but I'm not sure if +that counts...)

+ +

Which strategy do you believe is the right one to use to +get schools to use free software?

+ +

That's a tough question! For very many years UK schools installed +and taught only proprietary software, so that at the highest levels +the notion of "computer" means simply "proprietary office +applications". However, schools today are experiencing budget +constraints, and many are having to think hard about upgrading Windows +XP. At the same time, we have students showing teachers how to use +iPads, MacBooks and Android, so the choice of operating system is no +longer quite so automatic. What is more, our government at last +realised that we need people with programming skills, so they're +putting coding back in the curriculum! And it's encouraging that the +first 10,000 Raspberry Pi units sold out in 2 hours.

+ +

I don't really know what strategy is going to get UK schools to use +free software, but building an active community of Skolelinux/Debian +Edu users in this country has to be part of it.

- Tags: debian edu, norsk. + Tags: debian edu, english, intervju.

@@ -194,59 +199,53 @@ men det har vÃ¦rt veldig liten aktivitet der de siste Ã¥rene.

Setting up a new school with Debian Edu/Squeeze

25th January 2012

The next version of Debian Edu -/ Skolelinux will include a new tool -sitesummary2ldapdhcp, which can be used to quickly set up all -the computers in a school without much manual labour. Here is a short -summary on how to use it to set up a new school.

- -

First, install a combined Main Server and Thin Client Server as the -central server in the network. Next, PXE boot all the client machines -as thin clients and wait 5 minutes after the last client booted to -allow the clients to report their existence to the central server. When -this is done, log on to the central server and run -sitesummary2ldapdhcp -a in the konsole to use the -collected information to generate system objects in LDAP. The output -will look similar to this:

- -

-% sitesummary2ldapdhcp -a
-info: Updating machine tjener.intern [10.0.2.2] id ether-00:01:02:03:04:05.
-info: Create GOsa machine for auto-mac-00-01-02-03-04-06 [10.0.16.20] id ether-00:01:02:03:04:06.
-
-Enter password if you want to activate these changes, and ^c to abort.
-
-Connecting to LDAP as cn=admin,ou=ldap-access,dc=skole,dc=skolelinux,dc=no
-enter password: *******
-% 
-

- -

After providing the LDAP administrative password (the same as the -root password set during installation), the LDAP database will be -populated with system objects for each PXE booted machine with -automatically generated names. The final step to set up the school is -then to log into GOsa, -the web based user, group and system administration system to change -system names, add systems to the correct host groups and finally -enable DHCP and DNS for the systems. All clients that should be used -as diskless workstations should be added to the workstation-hosts -group. After this is done, all computers can be booted again via PXE -and get their assigned names and group based configuration -automatically.

- -

We plan to release beta3 with the updated version of this feature -enabled this weekend. You might want to give it a try.

- -

Update 2012-01-28: When calling sitesummary2ldapdhcp to add new -hosts, one need to add the option -a. I forgot to mention this in my -original text, and have added it to the text now.

Writing and translating documentation in Debian Edu

16th March 2012

Documentation in Debian Edu is provided in several languages, and +it is important to make it both easy to contribute and to keep the +translated versions in sync. To do this we have come up with what we +believe is a very efficient work flow.

+ +

The documentation is written in a +moinmoin wiki (see for example +the +Squeeze release manual) with support for exporting the content as +docbook XML.
This docbook document is given to po4a to extract a gettext style +.pot file with the content, which in turn is used to create .po files +with the translated text.
The .po files are given to translators, and they can always tell +which part of the original wiki document is new or changed. They can +use their normal translation tools like lokalize or poedit to write +the translation. There is even a system in place to handle translated +images.
The translated .po files are combined with the original docbook +XML document using po4a to create a translated docbook document.
The final step is to use all the generated docbook files and +create PDF and HTML version of the original and translated documents.

+ +

This setup work very well, but have a few issues. The biggest +issue is that the docbook support +we use in moinmoin is not actively maintained. The docbook +support is also buggy, and our build system contain workarounds to +make sure the generated docbook is usable despite these bugs.

+ +

If you want to have a look at our setup, it is all there in the +debian-edu-doc +package.

- Tags: debian edu, english, sitesummary. + Tags: debian edu, english.

@@ -254,120 +253,115 @@ original text, and have added it to the text now.

Skolelinux-intervju: Paul Reidar LÃ¸sneslÃ¸kken

18th January 2012

I serien med intervjuer av folk i -Skolelinux-miljÃ¸et, har jeg nÃ¥ -lyktes med Ã¥ fÃ¥ tak i en skolemann som ikke er aktiv med utviklingen, -men likevel har vÃ¦rt med nesten siden starten av prosjektet. Jeg -Ã¸nsker derfor velkommen til Paul Reidar LÃ¸sneslÃ¸kken, en mann med -mange Ã¥rs erfaring i bruk av Skolelinux.

NUUG-presentasjon: Skolelinux - ferdig oppsatt skolenettlÃ¸sning

13th March 2012

I dag presenterte jeg ny versjon av Skolelinux for NUUGs medlemmer. +Lysark +er tilgjengelige allerede og +video-opptak +kommer sÃ¥ snart videogruppa til NUUG fÃ¥r publisert den. Jeg kom pÃ¥ +endel punkter om nye ting i Squeeze-utgaven under veis som jeg burde +hatt med, og har sikkert skrevet noe tull pÃ¥ lysarkene som jeg ennÃ¥ +ikke har oppdaget. Denne presentasjonen ble smurt ihop pÃ¥ veldig kort +tid, og jeg rakk ikke finpusse den. HÃ¥per den kan vÃ¦re lÃ¦rerik +likevel.

+ + + Tags: debian edu, norsk, nuug. + + +

+ +

Skolelinux-intervju: KÃ¥re Nordby

12th March 2012

FÃ¸rste ut i serien med intervjuer av folk i +Skolelinux-miljÃ¸et etter at +ny +versjon av Skolelinux ble lansert i helga, er nylig valgte +styremedlem i foreningen +Fri programvare i +Skolen (FRiSK) som organiserer +Skolelinux-utviklingen og daglig leder i +Skolelinux Drift AS, selskapet +prosjektet opprettet som et tilbud til skoler som Ã¸nsket en +kommersiell samarbeidsparter. Det bÃ¸r nevnes at jeg er styremedlem i +Skolelinux Drift AS og styreleder i selskapets hovedeier stiftelsen +SLX Debian Labs +som beskytter verdiene til Skolelinux-prosjektet, og kjenner KÃ¥re den +veien.

Hvem er du, og hva driver du med til daglig?

Jeg driftet tidligere IKT lÃ¸sningen for skolene i -Nord-Odal. I dag er jeg -IKT-konsulent for hele kommunen og samarbeider med -Hedmark-IKT for best mulig -tjenester til kommunen. Jeg har bakgrunn som elektronikkreparatÃ¸r og -grunnskolelÃ¦rer og har tatt en del fag innen IKT, i hovedsak -driftsfag. IKT i Nord-Odal kommune blir i dag driftet av Hedmark IKT -som er et samarbeid mellom LÃ¸ten, Stange, Grue, Hamar, Kongsvinger og -Nord-Odal. Jeg er fortsatt "IKT-personen" pÃ¥ skolene i kommunen og -fÃ¸lger opp og gjÃ¸r enkelte mindre endringer der.

Jeg har siden januar 2010 vÃ¦rt daglig leder i Skolelinux Drift AS, +som leverer support, installasjon, tilpasning, drift, og opplÃ¦ring pÃ¥ +Debian Edu / Skolelinux. Fra 2012 er jeg valgt inn som styremedlem i +FRiSK. Min forrige jobb var som KAM i Redpill Linpro (som er en av +eierne i Skolelinux Drift). FÃ¸r det var jeg daglig leder i et eget 7 +manns konsulent selskap som ogsÃ¥ startet med fri programvare mot +slutten.

Hvordan kom du i kontakt med Skolelinux-prosjektet?

Kommunen satset pÃ¥ Skolelinux i 2004. Jeg var ikke med i -beslutningsprosessen den gang, men ble likevel med fra starten nÃ¥r -dette ble levert.

Jeg hÃ¸rte om det fÃ¸rst nÃ¥r jeg jobbet i Redpill Linpro. Men jeg +har ogsÃ¥ en datter som gÃ¥r pÃ¥ en friskole, som ogsÃ¥ bruker Skolelinux. +Som kjent har ikke friskoler de samme Ã¸konomiske rammebetingelsene som +offentlige skoler, sÃ¥ for dem var det det absolutt beste alternativet. +De anser ogsÃ¥ Skolelinux som et stabilt system, som bare gÃ¥r og gÃ¥r (i +motsetning til det lille Windows-baserte nettverket de har pÃ¥ +admin-siden).

Hva er fordelene med Skolelinux slik du ser det?

Fordelene med Skolelinux er rask oppstart, sentral drift av -klientene, klienter som jobber raskt og effektivt, bedre -funksjonalitet pÃ¥ eldre utstyr og en ganske god programpakke med fri -programvare som fÃ¸lger med. LÃ¸sningen med halvtykke klienter gjÃ¸r at -prosessering skjer lokalt med alltid ferske maskiner.

- -

Skolelinux kan fungere godt pÃ¥ gammelt utstyr, men det er klart at -utstyr ogsÃ¥ blir for gammelt selv for Skolelinux. I forbindelese med -at vi nylig fikk nye servere og ny installasjon kastet jeg ut ca 60 -klienter som fortsatt var i drift etter at de var kjÃ¸pt godt brukt i -2004. Noe var rundt 15 Ã¥r gammelt, men var fortsatt i bruk. Noen -klaget pÃ¥ at det nÃ¥ gikk veldig tregt pÃ¥ en del pedagogiske nettsider -med flash o.l. Det er fullt forstÃ¥elig.

- -

Jeg fikk nylig et spÃ¸rsmÃ¥l fra ungdomsskolens rektor om jeg kunne -legge inn FreeMind, et -tankekartprogram , pÃ¥ skolens elev-Windowsmaskiner. LÃ¦rerne hadde -vÃ¦rt pÃ¥ kurs og ville ta dette i bruk. Skolen har ca halvparten av -elevmaskinene pÃ¥ bÃ¦rbare Windowsmaskiner. Da kunne jeg fortelle at -dette programmet allerede lÃ¥ inne pÃ¥ den nye SkolelinuxlÃ¸sningen -som nettopp var satt i drift, klart til bruk.

- -

Vi har de bÃ¦rbare maskinene pÃ¥ ungdomsskolen i domene med -Skolelinux. Dette fungerer ogsÃ¥ meget bra nÃ¥. Elevene fÃ¥r opp en -midlertidig windowsprofil nÃ¥r de logger pÃ¥. Denne profilen slettes -etter at de logger av, noe som medfÃ¸rer rene profiler hver gang de -starter opp en maskin. De mÃ¥ lagre i sin Skolelinprofil, noe som -medfÃ¸rer at de fÃ¥r tak i sine filer uavhengig av om de starter en -Windowsmaskin eller en Skolelinuxklient. Det er mye mindre trafikk i -det trÃ¥dlÃ¸se nettet etter at ikke hele profiler blir lastet opp til de -enkelte Windowsmaskinene og tilbake nÃ¥r man avslutter. Jeg vet ikke om -dette er standardoppsett i Skolelinux, men slik er vÃ¥rt oppsett -nÃ¥.

- -

Vi har i flere Ã¥r satt opp vÃ¥r lÃ¸sning slik at skriverkÃ¸er slettes -og skrivere startes hver natt. Hyggelig Ã¥ hÃ¸re at dette nÃ¥ skal bli -en standard i SkolelinuxlÃ¸sningen. Dette har vÃ¦rt en god hjelp for -oss.

- -

Elevene er lite opptatt av om de jobber pÃ¥ en Skolelinux eller en -Windowsmaskin bare de har de programmene de trenger og at det virker -nÃ¥r det skal brukes. Vi kjÃ¸rer mest mulig de samme programmene pÃ¥ -Windows som i Skolelinux, som f.eks Audacity og LibreOffice.

Sentralisert drift av tynne og disklÃ¸se arbeidsstasjoner. SÃ¥ledes +lydlÃ¸se og raskere arbeidsstasjoner som er bedre i klasserommet. +Lengre levetid pÃ¥ PC'er. Store besparelser pÃ¥ maskinvare og drift. Og +sÃ¥ klart fjerning av alle lisenskostnader. Personlig synes jeg ogsÃ¥ at +mange av programmene er bedre enn alternativene. Men dette er ofte en +smakssak og avhengig om man mÃ¥ ha det man er vant til fra fÃ¸r.

Hva er ulempene med Skolelinux slik du ser det?

LÃ¦rere bruker hos oss Windows. Dette fordi de da selv har mer -kontroll over sin maskin, kan bruke den overalt, og kan legge inn -programmer selv nÃ¥r de trenger noe i forhold til kurs o.l de er -pÃ¥. Jeg tror lÃ¦rernes selvstendighet her gjÃ¸r dem tryggere pÃ¥ IKT-bruk -generelt. Det at de av og til fÃ¥r opp advarsler og lignende gjÃ¸r ogsÃ¥ -at de mÃ¥ tenke igjennom og spÃ¸rre om ting rundt datasikkerhet.

- -

Det er en del programmer vi bruker som ikke finnes for Linux. Mest -brukt er nok Photostory3 som brukes i mange sammenhenger, sÃ¦rlig pÃ¥ -ungdomsskolen, bl.a. til Ã¥ lage herbarier (plantesamling) . Dette -finnes gratis for Windows, men er ikke fri programvare. Vi er opptatt -av at programmer elevene bruker pÃ¥ skolen ogsÃ¥ kan brukes gratis -hjemme. Det er ogsÃ¥ en del programmer som brukes til spesielle elever -som bare gÃ¥r i Windows. Det er viktig med fokus pÃ¥ funksjoner og ikke -pÃ¥ hvilket OS man bruker.

- -

For oss er det kombinasjonen mellom Skolelinux og Windows som gir -oss en god og hel lÃ¸sning. Skolelinux er best der de er gode.

For lite kjentskap til lÃ¸sningen. Noen ganger for dÃ¥rlig +kompatibilitet med arbeidsstasjoners/bÃ¦rbare maskiner sine +nettverksdrivere eller skjermkort. Men dette lÃ¸ser vi i skolene ved +standardisering. Ellers er det fÃ¥, om nesten ingen, av de kjente +maskinvare / infrastruktur leverandÃ¸rene til fylkes- / kommuner som +tilbyr denne plattformen. Skal dette endre seg sÃ¥ mÃ¥ kommunene selv +sette slike krav til leverandÃ¸rene.

Hvilken fri programvare bruker du til daglig?

Selv er det LibreOffice jeg bruker til daglig. Jeg bruker selv en -Windowsmaskin. Jeg har benyttet en del fri programvare i forbindelse -med sjekking av trafikk i nettverk, slik som Wireshark, men dette er -jo ikke aktuelt for skolene. Jeg er generelt glad i programmer som -fungerer pÃ¥ bÃ¥de Linux og Windows og gjerne MAC.

Har brukt OpenOffice.org siden starten (2001 ?), Kun Linux pÃ¥ +desktop siden 2005. Bruker i dag Kubuntu, Libreoffice og ymse annet +programvare til ulik kontorbruk som er lett Ã¥ installere / teste via +alle programarkivene som finnes.

Hvilken strategi tror du er den rette Ã¥ bruke for Ã¥ fÃ¥ skoler til Ã¥ ta i bruk fri programvare?

Det er viktig at det benyttes programmer som elevene ogsÃ¥ kan ta i -bruk hjemme. Det skal da vÃ¦re enkelt, lovlig og gratis for -elevene. Da er jeg ikke lenger veldig opptatt av om det kalles "fri -programvare". For skolene tror jeg "gratis" og "funksjonelt" er bedre -begreper enn "fri" i forhold til programmer. De fleste skiller nok -ikke mellom "fri" og "gratis". Det er nÃ¥ svÃ¦rt mange elever som -benytter OpenOffice eller LibreOffice som sin primÃ¦re kontorpakke -hjemme.

Fortsette Ã¥ presentere flere av de gode eksemplene hvor Debian Edu +/ Skolelinux brukes i kommuner og enkeltskoler. Vi mÃ¥ fÃ¥ bedre frem +at det er mulig tilknytte bÃ¥de Windows og Mac klienter pÃ¥ denne +plattformen (selv om det vil Ã¸ke driftskostnadene). Dette gjÃ¸res +mange steder. Spesielt er det mange lÃ¦rere som Ã¸nsker Ã¥ bruke +Windows/Mac-bÃ¦rbare, gjerne som sin private PC ogsÃ¥. Det er ogsÃ¥ mulig +for kommunen Ã¥ integrere med Active Directory i stedet for OpenLDAP +som kommer med ut av boksen (selv om ogsÃ¥ dette Ã¸ker kostnadene). +Dette vil muligens bidra til Ã¥ fjerne noe motstand hos noen +potensielle brukere / driftpersonell for Ã¥ ta i bruk noe +nytt. Fremveksten av mobile brukere og nettbrett gÃ¥r i vÃ¥r favÃ¸r. +Brukerne blir kjent og vant til flere nye operativsystemer / +brukergrensesnitt. SÃ¥ utviklerfellesskapet bÃ¸r jobbe videre med Ã¥ +integrere flere nye klienttyper, som ultra lav-kostklienter og +nettbrett (blant annet fri programvare-alternativet +Spark med +Mer OS og +KDE Active Plasma).

@@ -380,52 +374,19 @@ hjemme.

Changing the default Iceweasel start page in Debian Edu/Squeeze

10th January 2012

In the Squeeze version of -Debian Edu / Skolelinux soon -to be released, users of the system will get their default browser -start page set from LDAP, allowing the system administrator to point -all users to the school web page by updating one setting in LDAP. In -addition to setting the default start page when a machine boots, users -are shown the same page as a welcome page when they log in for the -first time.

- -

The LDAP object dc=skole,dc=skolelinux,dc=no have an attribute -labeledURI with "http://www/ LDAP for Debian Edu/Skolelinux" as the -default content. By changing this value to another URL, all users get -to see the page behind this new URL.

- -

An easy way to update it is by using the ldapvi tool. It can be -called as "ldapvi -ZD '(cn=admin)'' to update LDAP with the -new setting.

- -

We have written the code to adjust the default start page and show -the welcome page, and I wonder if there is an easier way to do this -from within Iceweasel instead.

- - - Tags: debian edu, english, web. - - -

- -

Second beta version of Debian Edu / Skolelinux based on Squeeze

7th January 2012

I am happy to announce that today we managed to wrap up and publish -the second beta version of -Debian Edu / Skolelinux. If -you want to test a LDAP backed Kerberos server with out of the box PXE -configuration for running diskless machines and installing new -machines, check it out. If you need a software solution for your -school, check it out too. The full announcement is -available -on the project announcement list.

Skolelinux / Debian Edu Squeeze is out!

11th March 2012

This weekend we finally published the first stable release of +Skolelinux / Debian Edu based +on Debian/Squeeze. The full announcement is +available +from the project announcement list. Now is a good time to test if it +you have not done so already.

+ +

I plan to present the new version at +a NUUG +meeting on tuesday. I look forward to seeing you there if you are +in Oslo, Norway.

@@ -438,45 +399,118 @@ on the project announcement list.

Fixing an hanging debian installer for Debian Edu

3rd January 2012

During christmas, I have been working getting the next version of -Debian Edu / Skolelinux ready -for release. The initial problem I looked at was particularly -interesting.

- -

The installer would hang at the end when it was doing it -post-installation configuration, and whatevery I did to try to find -the cause and fix it always worked while I tested it, but never when I -integrated it into the installer and ran the installation from -scratch. I would try to restart processes, close file descriptors, -remove or create files, and the installer would always unblock and -wrap up its tasks.

- -

Eventually the cause was found. The kernel was simply running out -of entropy, causing the Kerberos setup to hang waiting for more. -Pressing keys was adding entropy to the kernel, and thus all my tries -to fix the problem worked not because what I was typing to fix it, but -because I was typing.

- -

The fix I implemented was to add a background process looking at -the level of entropy in the kernel (by checking -/proc/sys/kernel/random/entropy_avail), and if it was too small, the -installer will flush the kernel file buffers and do 'find /' to -generate some disk IO. Disk IO generate entropy in the kernel, and is -one of the few things that can be initated from within the system to -generate entropy.

- -

The fix is in -beta1 -of the Debian Edu/Squeeze version, and we -welcome more testers and -developers. We plan to release beta2 this weekend.

Debian Edu interview: Nigel Barker

9th March 2012

Inspired by the +interview series conducted by Raphael, I started a Norwegian +interview series with people involved in the Debian Edu / Skolelinux +community. This was so popular that I believe it is time to move to a +more international audience.

+ +

While Debian Edu and +Skolelinux originated in France and Norway, and have most users in +Europe, there are users all around the globe. One of those far away +from me is Nigel Barker, a long time Debian Edu system administrator +and contributor. It is thanks to him that Debian Edu is adjusted to +work out of the box in Japan. I got him to answer a few questions, +and am happy to share the response with you. :) + + +

Who are you, and how do you spend your days?

+ +

My name is Nigel Barker, and I am British. I am married to Yumiko, +and we have three lovely children, aged 15, 14 and 4(!) I am the IT +Coordinator at Hiroshima International School, Japan. I am also a +teacher, and in fact I spend most of my day teaching Mathematics, +Science, IT, and Chemistry. I was originally a Chemistry teacher, but +I have always had an interest in computers. Another teacher teaches +primary school IT, but apart from that I am the only computer person, +so that means I am the network manager, technician and webmaster, +also, and I help people with their computer problems. I teach python +to beginners in an after-school club. I am way too busy, so I really +appreciate the simplicity of Skolelinux.

+ +

How did you get in contact with the Skolelinux/Debian Edu +project?

+ +

In around 2004 or 5 I discovered the ltsp project, and set up a +server in the IT lab. I wanted some way to connect it to our central +samba server, which I was also quite poor at configuring. I discovered +Edubuntu when it came out, but it didn't really improve my setup. I +did various desperate searches for things like "school Linux server" +and ended up in a document called "Drift" something or other. Reading +there it became clear that Skolelinux was going to solve all my +problems in one go. I was very excited, but apprehensive, because my +previous attempts to install Debian had ended in failure (I used +Mandrake for everything - ltsp, samba, apache, mail, ns...). I +downloaded a beta version, had some problems, so subscribed to the +Debian Edu list for help. I have remained subscribed ever since, and +my school has run a Skolelinux network since Sarge.

+ +

What do you see as the advantages of Skolelinux/Debian +Edu?

+ +

For me the integrated setup. This is not just the server, or the +workstation, or the ltsp. Its all of them, and its all configured +ready to go. I read somewhere in the early documentation that it is +designed to be setup and managed by the Maths or Science teacher, who +doesn't necessarily know much about computers, in a small Norwegian +school. That describes me perfectly if you replace Norway with +Japan.

+ +

What do you see as the disadvantages of Skolelinux/Debian +Edu?

+ +

The desktop is fairly plain. If you compare it with Edubuntu, who +have fun themes for children, or with distributions such as Mint, who +make the desktop beautiful. They create a good impression on people +who don't need to understand how to use any of it, but who might be +important to the school. School administrators or directors, for +instance, or parents. Even kids. Debian itself usually has ugly +default theme settings. It was my dream a few years back that some +kind of integration would allow Edubuntu to do the desktop stuff and +Debian Edu the servers, but now I realise how impossible that is. A +second disadvantage is that if something goes wrong, or you need to +customise something, then suddenly the level of expertise required +multiplies. For example, backup wasn't working properly in Lenny. It +took me ages to learn how to set up my own server to do rsync backups. +I am afraid of anything to do with ldap, but perhaps Gosa will +help.

+ +

Which free software do you use daily?

+ +

Nowadays I only use Debian on my personal computers. I have one for +studio work (I play guitar and write songs), running AV Linux +(customised Debian) a netbook running Squeeze, and a bigger laptop +still running Skolelinux Lenny workstation. I have a Tjener in my +house, that's very useful for the family photos and music. At school +the students only use Skolelinux. (Some teachers and the office still +have windows). So that means we only use free software all day every +day. Open office, The GIMP, Firefox/Iceweasel, VLC and Audacity are +installed on every computer in school, irrespective of OS. We also +have Koha on Debian for the library, and Apache, Moodle, b2evolution +and Etomite on Debian for the www. The firewall is Untangle.

+ +

Which strategy do you believe is the right one to use to +get schools to use free software?

+ +

Current trends are in our favour. Open source is big in industry, +and ordinary people have heard of it. The spread of Android and the +popularity of Apple have helped to weaken the impression that you have +to have Microsoft on everything. People complain to me much less about +file formats and Word than they did 5 years ago. The Edu aspect is +also a selling point. This is all customised for schools. Where is the +Windows-edu, or the Mac-edu? But of course the main attraction is +budget.The trick is to convince people that the quality is not +compromised when you stop paying and use free software instead. That +is one reason why I say the desktop experience is a weakness. People +are not impressed when their USB drive doesn't work, or their browser +doesn't play flash, for example.

- Tags: debian edu, english. + Tags: debian edu, english, intervju.

@@ -484,92 +518,28 @@ developers. We plan to release beta2 this weekend.

Skolelinux-intervju: Peter Hansteen

11th December 2011

Etter en lang pause er det klart for neste mann ut i min serie med -intervjuer av -Skolelinux-relaterte personer. - -Denne gangen har jeg besÃ¸k av et avtroppende styremedlem i -FRISK, og en mann -som har vÃ¦rt aktiv i Linux-miljÃ¸et i Bergen siden 90-tallet.

- -

Hvem er du, og hva driver du med til daglig?

- -

Jeg heter Peter Hansteen, og jobber til daglig som seniorkonsulent -i EDB ErgoGroup i Bergen. I praksis betyr det systemadministrasjon pÃ¥ -Unix (primÃ¦rt Solaris, men en viss komponent av Linux). Men Solaris -er for meg et relativt nytt bekjentskap, hovedplattformen min har -generelt vÃ¦rt OpenBSD og til dels FreeBSD.

- -

Hvordan kom du i kontakt med Skolelinux-prosjektet?

- -

Jeg husker ikke helt alle detaljene mer ;) - men jeg tror det var -gjennom news-gruppen no.it.os.unix.linux.diverse, efn-listen og -etterhvert ogsÃ¥ BLUG-miljÃ¸et her i Bergen. Vi hadde et par -Skolelinux-sentrerte BLUG-mÃ¸ter for noen Ã¥r siden, og det har vÃ¦rt et -par Skolelinux-utviklersamlinger her.

- -

Hva er fordelene med Skolelinux slik du ser det?

- -

Jeg bruker dessverre ikke Skolelinux daglig. Men slik jeg kjenner -prosjektet har det vÃ¦rt i stand til Ã¥ ta opp i seg det beste av fri -programvare i mange kategorier, sÃ¥ fra et sysadmin-perspektiv ser det -ut som en svÃ¦rt behagelig sak. For brukerne er det vel bÃ¥de en fordel -og en ulempe at det ikke er Windows. Men vi hÃ¥per at fordelene med et -fritt system etterhvert vil bli Ã¥penbare for bÃ¥de elever, lÃ¦rekrefter -og foreldre.

- -

Hva er ulempene med Skolelinux slik du ser det?

- -

Vel, ulempen er vel fÃ¸rst og fremst at andre aktÃ¸rer med mer -kapitalmuskel har klart Ã¥ etablere seg som det bÃ¥de lÃ¦rere og foreldre -fÃ¸ler seg trygge pÃ¥, selv om det etter mitt hode ikke er noen grunn -til Ã¥ vÃ¦re spesielt trygg pÃ¥ de kommersielle alternativene.

- -

Hvilken fri programvare bruker du til daglig?

- -

NÃ¥r jeg fÃ¥r bestemme helt selv, bruker jeg kun fri programvare. Da -helst med vekt pÃ¥ ting som kjÃ¸rer greit pÃ¥ OpenBSD. Hjemme er det -OpenBSD, Ubuntu eller FreeBSD vi bruker. PÃ¥ skrivebordet er det en -avveining mellom Gnome, KDE eller hva-det-nÃ¥-heter som er -standardvalget i Ubuntu, ellers er det de kjente tingene som -LibreOffice, Emacs, mplayer. PÃ¥ server er det selvfÃ¸lgelig Apache, -for overvÃ¥king bÃ¥de OpenNMS og Nagios (det bare ble sÃ¥nn, og -forskjellige siter). Jeg skriver til tider om slikt jeg holder pÃ¥ med -pÃ¥ -http://bsdly.blogspot.com.

- -

Men vi mÃ¥ nevne at selv vi har en Microsoft-ting som vi slÃ¥r pÃ¥ nÃ¥r -vi av en eller annen grunn mÃ¥. Det betyr igjen vanligvis nÃ¥r en -mobiltelefon eller en annen lukket elektronisk dings krever kontakt -via en slik for Ã¥ fÃ¥ oppdateringene sine.

- -

Hvilken strategi tror du er den rette Ã¥ bruke for Ã¥ fÃ¥ -skoler til Ã¥ ta i bruk fri programvare?

- -

Hadde vi hatt det rette svaret pÃ¥ det spÃ¸rsmÃ¥let, sÃ¥ hadde vi -gjerne hatt Skolelinux som fÃ¸rstevalg pÃ¥ alle skoler ;)

- -

Men jeg tror vi mÃ¥ legge vekt pÃ¥ flere forskjellige ting. En helt -sentral sak er Ã¥ fokusere pÃ¥ fri programvare og Ã¥pne standarder som de -demokratiske verdiene de faktisk er. Det har kanskje kommet litt for -mye i bakgrunnen i forhold til strevet etter Ã¥ lage det mest mulig -'brukervennlige' systemet. Det er en tung vei Ã¥ gÃ¥, sÃ¥ det er -forstÃ¥elig at freenix-aktivister heller velger Ã¥ skrive kode og annet -som er mer lystbetont. Mer praktisk tror jeg vi mÃ¥ gjÃ¸re i alle fall -to ting: For det fÃ¸rste sÃ¸rge for Ã¥ fortsette med Ã¥ levere det best -mulige frie produktet, slik at det er lett Ã¥ bÃ¥de komme i gang og -holde systemene i daglig drift, og for det andre 2) spore opp mulige -aktivister der de finnes, via lokale brukergrupper, sosiale medier -eller annet og sÃ¸rge for at de fortsetter Ã¥ vÃ¦re aktive. Mer og -mindre uformelle treff kan vÃ¦re nyttig i tillegg til de mer -organiserte mÃ¸tene med foredrag, konferanser og utviklersamlinger.

Debian Edu screencast: Mass creation of user accounts in Squeeze

7th March 2012

+ +

One of the Debian Edu developers, Wolfgang Schweer, just created a +screen cast documenting how to create a lot of new users in LDAP on +Debian Edu Squeeze. The video is embedded here in quarter size, and +also available from vimeo and +download as a +Ogg +Theora file. Check it out below.

+ +

Download video as + Ogg.

- Tags: debian edu, intervju, norsk. + Tags: debian edu, english.

@@ -577,193 +547,34 @@ organiserte mÃ¸tene med foredrag, konferanser og utviklersamlinger.

Automatically upgrading server firmware on Dell PowerEdge

21st November 2011

At work we have heaps of servers. I believe the total count is -around 1000 at the moment. To be able to get help from the vendors -when something go wrong, we want to keep the firmware on the servers -up to date. If the firmware isn't the latest and greatest, the -vendors typically refuse to start debugging any problems until the -firmware is upgraded. So before every reboot, we want to upgrade the -firmware, and we would really like everyone handling servers at the -university to do this themselves when they plan to reboot a machine. -For that to happen we at the unix server admin group need to provide -the tools to do so.

- -

To make firmware upgrading easier, I am working on a script to -fetch and install the latest firmware for the servers we got. Most of -our hardware are from Dell and HP, so I have focused on these servers -so far. This blog post is about the Dell part.

- -

On the Dell FTP site I was lucky enough to find -an XML file -with firmware information for all 11th generation servers, listing -which firmware should be used on a given model and where on the FTP -site I can find it. Using a simple perl XML parser I can then -download the shell scripts Dell provides to do firmware upgrades from -within Linux and reboot when all the firmware is primed and ready to -be activated on the first reboot.

- -

This is the Dell related fragment of the perl code I am working on. -Are there anyone working on similar tools for firmware upgrading all -servers at a site? Please get in touch and lets share resources.

- -

-#!/usr/bin/perl
-use strict;
-use warnings;
-use File::Temp qw(tempdir);
-BEGIN {
-    # Install needed RHEL packages if missing
-    my %rhelmodules = (
-        'XML::Simple' => 'perl-XML-Simple',
-        );
-    for my $module (keys %rhelmodules) {
-        eval "use $module;";
-        if ($@) {
-            my $pkg = $rhelmodules{$module};
-            system("yum install -y $pkg");
-            eval "use $module;";
-        }
-    }
-}
-my $errorsto = 'pere@hungry.com';
-
-upgrade_dell();
-
-exit 0;
-
-sub run_firmware_script {
-    my ($opts, $script) = @_;
-    unless ($script) {
-        print STDERR "fail: missing script name\n";
-        exit 1
-    }
-    print STDERR "Running $script\n\n";
-
-    if (0 == system("sh $script $opts")) { # FIXME correct exit code handling
-        print STDERR "success: firmware script ran succcessfully\n";
-    } else {
-        print STDERR "fail: firmware script returned error\n";
-    }
-}
-
-sub run_firmware_scripts {
-    my ($opts, @dirs) = @_;
-    # Run firmware packages
-    for my $dir (@dirs) {
-        print STDERR "info: Running scripts in $dir\n";
-        opendir(my $dh, $dir) or die "Unable to open directory $dir: $!";
-        while (my $s = readdir $dh) {
-            next if $s =~ m/^\.\.?/;
-            run_firmware_script($opts, "$dir/$s");
-        }
-        closedir $dh;
-    }
-}
-
-sub download {
-    my $url = shift;
-    print STDERR "info: Downloading $url\n";
-    system("wget --quiet \"$url\"");
-}
-
-sub upgrade_dell {
-    my @dirs;
-    my $product = `dmidecode -s system-product-name`;
-    chomp $product;
-
-    if ($product =~ m/PowerEdge/) {
-
-        # on RHEL, these pacakges are needed by the firwmare upgrade scripts
-        system('yum install -y compat-libstdc++-33.i686 libstdc++.i686 libxml2.i686 procmail');
-
-        my $tmpdir = tempdir(
-            CLEANUP => 1
-            );
-        chdir($tmpdir);
-        fetch_dell_fw('catalog/Catalog.xml.gz');
-        system('gunzip Catalog.xml.gz');
-        my @paths = fetch_dell_fw_list('Catalog.xml');
-        # -q is quiet, disabling interactivity and reducing console output
-        my $fwopts = "-q";
-        if (@paths) {
-            for my $url (@paths) {
-                fetch_dell_fw($url);
-            }
-            run_firmware_scripts($fwopts, $tmpdir);
-        } else {
-            print STDERR "error: Unsupported Dell model '$product'.\n";
-            print STDERR "error: Please report to $errorsto.\n";
-        }
-        chdir('/');
-    } else {
-        print STDERR "error: Unsupported Dell model '$product'.\n";
-        print STDERR "error: Please report to $errorsto.\n";
-    }
-}
-
-sub fetch_dell_fw {
-    my $path = shift;
-    my $url = "ftp://ftp.us.dell.com/$path";
-    download($url);
-}
-
-# Using ftp://ftp.us.dell.com/catalog/Catalog.xml.gz, figure out which
-# firmware packages to download from Dell.  Only work for Linux
-# machines and 11th generation Dell servers.
-sub fetch_dell_fw_list {
-    my $filename = shift;
-
-    my $product = `dmidecode -s system-product-name`;
-    chomp $product;
-    my ($mybrand, $mymodel) = split(/\s+/, $product);
-
-    print STDERR "Finding firmware bundles for $mybrand $mymodel\n";
-
-    my $xml = XMLin($filename);
-    my @paths;
-    for my $bundle (@{$xml->{SoftwareBundle}}) {
-        my $brand = $bundle->{TargetSystems}->{Brand}->{Display}->{content};
-        my $model = $bundle->{TargetSystems}->{Brand}->{Model}->{Display}->{content};
-        my $oscode;
-        if ("ARRAY" eq ref $bundle->{TargetOSes}->{OperatingSystem}) {
-            $oscode = $bundle->{TargetOSes}->{OperatingSystem}[0]->{osCode};
-        } else {
-            $oscode = $bundle->{TargetOSes}->{OperatingSystem}->{osCode};
-        }
-        if ($mybrand eq $brand && $mymodel eq $model && "LIN" eq $oscode)
-        {
-            @paths = map { $_->{path} } @{$bundle->{Contents}->{Package}};
-        }
-    }
-    for my $component (@{$xml->{SoftwareComponent}}) {
-        my $componenttype = $component->{ComponentType}->{value};
-
-        # Drop application packages, only firmware and BIOS
-        next if 'APAC' eq $componenttype;
-
-        my $cpath = $component->{path};
-        for my $path (@paths) {
-            if ($cpath =~ m%/$path$%) {
-                push(@paths, $cpath);
-            }
-        }
-    }
-    return @paths;
-}
-

- -

The code is only tested on RedHat Enterprise Linux, but I suspect -it could work on other platforms with some tweaking. Anyone know a -index like Catalog.xml is available from HP for HP servers? At the -moment I maintain a similar list manually and it is quickly getting -outdated.

Hamar kommune imponerer i FiksGataMi-rapportert problem i dag

5th March 2012

Tok nettopp en titt pÃ¥ listen over lÃ¸ste problemer i +FiksGataMi (hentet via +Open311-sÃ¸kegrensesnittet), +og lot meg imponere over Hamar kommunes raske respons. Sjekk +rapport #10791, der +Hamar kommune kl. 10:19 i dag fÃ¥r beskjed om at det er dÃ¥rlig +brÃ¸yting, allerede 10:50 melder kommunen tilbake at de er pÃ¥ saken. +18:26 samme dag melder sÃ¥ innsender at problemet er lÃ¸st. Hatten av +for folkene i Hamar kommune!

+ +

Apropos bra respons. En bruker sendte for noen dager inn fÃ¸lgende +tilbakemelding til oss som stÃ¥r bak tjenesten.

+ +

Rapporterte inn slukte gatelys pÃ¥ Torsnesveien, og to +uker etterpÃ¥ er lysene tilbake. Flott service!

+ +

Det er veldig hyggelig Ã¥ hÃ¸re at FiksGataMi fungerer bra for +innbyggerne. MÃ¥tte alle landets innbyggere fÃ¥ samme gode erfaring med +FiksGataMi og det offentlige. I dag er det 52 kommuner som har lenke +til FiksGataMi fra sine nettsider, og dermed indikerer at de liker vÃ¥r +tjeneste. MÃ¥tte de fÃ¥ fÃ¸lge av resten av landets kommuner snart. :)

- Tags: debian, english. + Tags: fiksgatami, norsk.

@@ -783,7 +594,9 @@ outdated.

+ +

@@ -904,17 +717,17 @@ outdated.