X-Git-Url: http://pere.pagekite.me/gitweb/homepage.git/blobdiff_plain/056ef442e0ffec05f39dc8cbfa78519da1ace0f5..ede7777cd20a0f2909a22d2874d84d192a5958d6:/blog/archive/2010/11/11.rss?ds=sidebyside diff --git a/blog/archive/2010/11/11.rss b/blog/archive/2010/11/11.rss index 5f537100bb..0d470e4b75 100644 --- a/blog/archive/2010/11/11.rss +++ b/blog/archive/2010/11/11.rss @@ -7,95 +7,1011 @@ - Norgeskartet på mange vis - via OpenStreetmap.org - http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/Norgeskartet_p___mange_vis___via_OpenStreetmap_org.html - http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/Norgeskartet_p___mange_vis___via_OpenStreetmap_org.html - Mon, 1 Nov 2010 11:15:00 +0100 - -<p>Har oppdaget at mange ikke er klar over at OpenStreetmap.org er -tilgjengelig i en rekke forskjellige formater. Her er en liste med -eksporter jeg kjenner til for Norge, for de som trenger et -fribrukskart til sine tjenester:</p> + Debian Edu development gathering and General Assembly for FRiSK + http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/Debian_Edu_development_gathering_and_General_Assembly_for_FRiSK.html + http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/Debian_Edu_development_gathering_and_General_Assembly_for_FRiSK.html + Mon, 29 Nov 2010 18:40:00 +0100 + <p>On friday, the first Debian Edu / Skolelinux +<a href="http://www.friprogramvareiskolen.no/Gathering/2010-12-03-05-Oslo">development +gathering</a> in a long time take place here in Oslo, Norway. I +really look forward to seeing all the good people working on the +Squeeze release. The gathering is open for everyone interested in +learning more about Debian Edu / Skolelinux.</p> -<p><ul> +<p>On Saturday, the Norwegian member organization taking care of +organizing these development gatherings, Fri Programvare i Skolen, +will hold its +<a href="http://friprogramvareiskolen.no/Genfors/2010">General Assembly +for 2010</a>. Membership is open for all, and currently there are 388 +people registered as members. Last year 32 members cast their vote in +the memberdb based election system. I hope more people find time to +vote this year.</p> + + + + + Why isn't Debian Edu using VLC? + http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/Why_isn_t_Debian_Edu_using_VLC_.html + http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/Why_isn_t_Debian_Edu_using_VLC_.html + Sat, 27 Nov 2010 11:30:00 +0100 + <p>In the latest issue of Linux Journal, the readers choices were +presented, and the winner among the multimedia player were VLC. +Personally, I like VLC, and it is my player of choice when I first try +to play a video file or stream. Only if VLC fail will I drag out +gmplayer to see if it can do better. The reason is mostly the failure +model and trust. When VLC fail, it normally pop up a error message +reporting the problem. When mplayer fail, it normally segfault or +just hangs. The latter failure mode drain my trust in the program.<p> -<li>Cloudmade tilbyr OSM XML, Garmin Map Files, Osmosis country -bounding polygon, Shapefile, Navit maps, GPX POI, TomTom POI og OSM -XML feature extracts via -<a href="http://downloads.cloudmade.com/europe/norway">sine -nedlastingssider</a>.</li> +<p>But even if VLC is my player of choice, we have choosen to use +mplayer in <a href="http://www.skolelinux.org/">Debian +Edu/Skolelinux</a>. The reason is simple. We need a good browser +plugin to play web videos seamlessly, and the VLC browser plugin is +not very good. For example, it lack in-line control buttons, so there +is no way for the user to pause the video. Also, when I +<a href="http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/BrowserMultimedia">last +tested the browser plugins</a> available in Debian, the VLC plugin +failed on several video pages where mplayer based plugins worked. If +the browser plugin for VLC was as good as the gecko-mediaplayer +package (which uses mplayer), we would switch.</P> -<li>Geofabric tilbyr -<a href="http://download.geofabrik.de/osm/europe/norway.osm.bz2">OSM -XML</a>, -<a href="http://download.geofabrik.de/osm/europe/norway.osm.pbf">OSM -protobuf binærformat</a> og -<a href="http://download.geofabrik.de/osm/europe/norway.shp.zip">ESRI -Shapefile (EPSG:4326)</a> fra sine nedlastingssider.</li> +<p>While VLC is a good player, its user interface is slightly +annoying. The most annoying feature is its inconsistent use of +keyboard shortcuts. When the player is in full screen mode, its +shortcuts are different from when it is playing the video in a window. +For example, space only work as pause when in full screen mode. I +wish it had consisten shortcuts and that space also would work when in +window mode. Another nice shortcut in gmplayer is [enter] to restart +the current video. It is very nice when playing short videos from the +web and want to restart it when new people arrive to have a look at +what is going on.</p> + + + + + DND hedrer overvåkning av barn med Rosingsprisen + http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/DND_hedrer_overv_kning_av_barn_med_Rosingsprisen.html + http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/DND_hedrer_overv_kning_av_barn_med_Rosingsprisen.html + Tue, 23 Nov 2010 14:15:00 +0100 + <p>Jeg registrerer med vond smak i munnen at Den Norske Dataforening +<a +href="http://www.dataforeningen.no/hedret-med-rosingprisen.4849070-133913.html">hedrer +overvåkning av barn med Rosingsprisen for kreativitet i år</a>. Jeg +er glad jeg nå er meldt ut av DND.</p> -<li>Frikart.no tilbyr -<a href="http://www.frikart.no/garmin/">Garmin-kart</a> i uike -varianter for veibruk og turbruk sommer og vinter.</li> +<p>Å elektronisk overvåke sine barn er ikke å gjøre dem en tjeneste, +men et overgrep mot individer i utvikling som bør læres opp til å ta +egne valg.</p> -</ul></p> +<p>For å sitere Datatilsynets nye leder, Bjørn Erik Thon, i +<a href="http://www.idg.no/computerworld/article174262.ece">et intervju +med Computerworld Norge</A>:</p> -<p>Kartene oppdateres regelmessig, som oftest hver uke. Det skulle -dermed være noe for enhver smak.</p> +<p><blockquote> +- For alle som har barn, meg selv inkludert, er førstetanken at det +hadde vært fint å vite hvor barnet sitt er til enhver tid. Men ungene +har ikke godt av det. De er små individer som skal søke rundt og finne +sine små gjemmesteder og utvide horisonten, uten at foreldrene ser dem +i kortene. Det kan være fristende, men jeg ville ikke gått inn i +dette. +</blockquote></p> + +<p>Det er skremmende å se at DND mener en tjeneste som legger opp til +slike overgrep bør hedres. Å flytte oppveksten for barn inn i en +virtuell +<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panopticon">Panopticon</a> er et +grovt overgrep og vil gjøre skade på barnenes utvikling, og foreldre +burde tenke seg godt om før de gir etter for sine instinkter her.</p> + +<p>Blipper-tjenesten får meg til å tenke på bøkene til +<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Twelve_Hawks">John Twelve +Hawks</a>, som forbilledlig beskriver hvordan et totalitært +overvåkningssamfunn bygges sakte men sikkert rundt oss, satt sammen av +gode intensjoner og manglende bevissthet om hvilke prinsipper et +liberalt demokrati er fundamentert på. Jeg har hatt stor glede av å +lese alle de tre bøkene.</p> - Making room on the Debian Edu/Sqeeze DVD - http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/Making_room_on_the_Debian_Edu_Sqeeze_DVD.html - http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/Making_room_on_the_Debian_Edu_Sqeeze_DVD.html - Sun, 7 Nov 2010 11:45:00 +0100 - -<p>Prioritising packages for the Debian Edu / -<a href="http://www.skolelinux.org/">Skolelinux</a> DVD, which is -supposed provide a school with all the services and user applications -needed on the pupils computer network has always been hard. Even -schools without Internet connections should be able to get Debian Edu -working using this DVD.</p> + Lenny->Squeeze upgrades of the Gnome and KDE desktop, now with apt-get autoremove + http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/Lenny__Squeeze_upgrades_of_the_Gnome_and_KDE_desktop__now_with_apt_get_autoremove.html + http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/Lenny__Squeeze_upgrades_of_the_Gnome_and_KDE_desktop__now_with_apt_get_autoremove.html + Mon, 22 Nov 2010 14:15:00 +0100 + <p>Michael Biebl suggested to me on IRC, that I changed my automated +upgrade testing of the +<a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/~pere/debian-upgrade-testing/">Lenny +Gnome and KDE Desktop</a> to do <tt>apt-get autoremove</tt> when using apt-get. +This seem like a very good idea, so I adjusted by test scripts and +can now present the updated result from today:</p> -<p>The job became a lot harder when apt and aptitude started -installing recommended packages by default. We want the same set of -packages to be installed when using the DVD and the netinst CD, and -that means all recommended packages need to be on the DVD. I created -a patch for debian-cd in <a href="http://bugs.debian.org/601203">BTS -report #601203</a> to do this, and since this change was applied to -the Debian Edu DVD build, we have been seriously short on space.</p> +<p>This is for Gnome:</p> -<p>A few days ago we decided to drop blender, wxmaxima and kicad from -the default installation to save space on the DVD, believing that -those needing these applications are few and can get them from the -Debian archive.</p> +<p>Installed using apt-get, missing with aptitude</p> -<p>Yesterday, I had a look what source packages to see which packages -were using most space. A few large packages are well know; -openoffice.org, openclipart and fluid-soundfont. But I also -discovered that lilypond used 106 MiB and fglrx-driver used 53 MiB. -The lilypond package is pulled in as a dependency for rosegarden, and -when looking a bit closer I discovered that 99 MiB of the 106 MiB were -the documentation package, which is recommended by the binary package. -I decided to drop this documentation package from our DVD, as most of -our users will use the GUI front-ends and do not need the lilypond -documentation. Similarly, I dropped the non-free fglrx-driver package -which might be installed by d-i when its hardware is detected, as the -free X driver should work.</p> +<blockquote><p> + apache2.2-bin + aptdaemon + baobab + binfmt-support + browser-plugin-gnash + cheese-common + cli-common + cups-pk-helper + dmz-cursor-theme + empathy + empathy-common + freedesktop-sound-theme + freeglut3 + gconf-defaults-service + gdm-themes + gedit-plugins + geoclue + geoclue-hostip + geoclue-localnet + geoclue-manual + geoclue-yahoo + gnash + gnash-common + gnome + gnome-backgrounds + gnome-cards-data + gnome-codec-install + gnome-core + gnome-desktop-environment + gnome-disk-utility + gnome-screenshot + gnome-search-tool + gnome-session-canberra + gnome-system-log + gnome-themes-extras + gnome-themes-more + gnome-user-share + gstreamer0.10-fluendo-mp3 + gstreamer0.10-tools + gtk2-engines + gtk2-engines-pixbuf + gtk2-engines-smooth + hamster-applet + libapache2-mod-dnssd + libapr1 + libaprutil1 + libaprutil1-dbd-sqlite3 + libaprutil1-ldap + libart2.0-cil + libboost-date-time1.42.0 + libboost-python1.42.0 + libboost-thread1.42.0 + libchamplain-0.4-0 + libchamplain-gtk-0.4-0 + libcheese-gtk18 + libclutter-gtk-0.10-0 + libcryptui0 + libdiscid0 + libelf1 + libepc-1.0-2 + libepc-common + libepc-ui-1.0-2 + libfreerdp-plugins-standard + libfreerdp0 + libgconf2.0-cil + libgdata-common + libgdata7 + libgdu-gtk0 + libgee2 + libgeoclue0 + libgexiv2-0 + libgif4 + libglade2.0-cil + libglib2.0-cil + libgmime2.4-cil + libgnome-vfs2.0-cil + libgnome2.24-cil + libgnomepanel2.24-cil + libgpod-common + libgpod4 + libgtk2.0-cil + libgtkglext1 + libgtksourceview2.0-common + libmono-addins-gui0.2-cil + libmono-addins0.2-cil + libmono-cairo2.0-cil + libmono-corlib2.0-cil + libmono-i18n-west2.0-cil + libmono-posix2.0-cil + libmono-security2.0-cil + libmono-sharpzip2.84-cil + libmono-system2.0-cil + libmtp8 + libmusicbrainz3-6 + libndesk-dbus-glib1.0-cil + libndesk-dbus1.0-cil + libopal3.6.8 + libpolkit-gtk-1-0 + libpt2.6.7 + libpython2.6 + librpm1 + librpmio1 + libsdl1.2debian + libsrtp0 + libssh-4 + libtelepathy-farsight0 + libtelepathy-glib0 + libtidy-0.99-0 + media-player-info + mesa-utils + mono-2.0-gac + mono-gac + mono-runtime + nautilus-sendto + nautilus-sendto-empathy + p7zip-full + pkg-config + python-aptdaemon + python-aptdaemon-gtk + python-axiom + python-beautifulsoup + python-bugbuddy + python-clientform + python-coherence + python-configobj + python-crypto + python-cupshelpers + python-elementtree + python-epsilon + python-evolution + python-feedparser + python-gdata + python-gdbm + python-gst0.10 + python-gtkglext1 + python-gtksourceview2 + python-httplib2 + python-louie + python-mako + python-markupsafe + python-mechanize + python-nevow + python-notify + python-opengl + python-openssl + python-pam + python-pkg-resources + python-pyasn1 + python-pysqlite2 + python-rdflib + python-serial + python-tagpy + python-twisted-bin + python-twisted-conch + python-twisted-core + python-twisted-web + python-utidylib + python-webkit + python-xdg + python-zope.interface + remmina + remmina-plugin-data + remmina-plugin-rdp + remmina-plugin-vnc + rhythmbox-plugin-cdrecorder + rhythmbox-plugins + rpm-common + rpm2cpio + seahorse-plugins + shotwell + software-center + system-config-printer-udev + telepathy-gabble + telepathy-mission-control-5 + telepathy-salut + tomboy + totem + totem-coherence + totem-mozilla + totem-plugins + transmission-common + xdg-user-dirs + xdg-user-dirs-gtk + xserver-xephyr +</p></blockquote> -<p>With this change, we finally got space for the LXDE and Gnome -desktop packages as well as the language specific packages making the -DVD more useful again.</p> +<p>Installed using apt-get, removed with aptitude</p> + +<blockquote><p> + cheese + ekiga + eog + epiphany-extensions + evolution-exchange + fast-user-switch-applet + file-roller + gcalctool + gconf-editor + gdm + gedit + gedit-common + gnome-games + gnome-games-data + gnome-nettool + gnome-system-tools + gnome-themes + gnuchess + gucharmap + guile-1.8-libs + libavahi-ui0 + libdmx1 + libgalago3 + libgtk-vnc-1.0-0 + libgtksourceview2.0-0 + liblircclient0 + libsdl1.2debian-alsa + libspeexdsp1 + libsvga1 + rhythmbox + seahorse + sound-juicer + system-config-printer + totem-common + transmission-gtk + vinagre + vino +</p></blockquote> + +<p>Installed using aptitude, missing with apt-get</p> + +<blockquote><p> + gstreamer0.10-gnomevfs +</p></blockquote> + +<p>Installed using aptitude, removed with apt-get</p> + +<blockquote><p> +[nothing] +</p></blockquote> + +<p>This is for KDE:</p> + +<p>Installed using apt-get, missing with aptitude</p> + +<blockquote><p> + ksmserver +</p></blockquote> + +<p>Installed using apt-get, removed with aptitude</p> + +<blockquote><p> + kwin + network-manager-kde +</p></blockquote> + +<p>Installed using aptitude, missing with apt-get</p> + +<blockquote><p> + arts + dolphin + freespacenotifier + google-gadgets-gst + google-gadgets-xul + kappfinder + kcalc + kcharselect + kde-core + kde-plasma-desktop + kde-standard + kde-window-manager + kdeartwork + kdeartwork-emoticons + kdeartwork-style + kdeartwork-theme-icon + kdebase + kdebase-apps + kdebase-workspace + kdebase-workspace-bin + kdebase-workspace-data + kdeeject + kdelibs + kdeplasma-addons + kdeutils + kdewallpapers + kdf + kfloppy + kgpg + khelpcenter4 + kinfocenter + konq-plugins-l10n + konqueror-nsplugins + kscreensaver + kscreensaver-xsavers + ktimer + kwrite + libgle3 + libkde4-ruby1.8 + libkonq5 + libkonq5-templates + libnetpbm10 + libplasma-ruby + libplasma-ruby1.8 + libqt4-ruby1.8 + marble-data + marble-plugins + netpbm + nuvola-icon-theme + plasma-dataengines-workspace + plasma-desktop + plasma-desktopthemes-artwork + plasma-runners-addons + plasma-scriptengine-googlegadgets + plasma-scriptengine-python + plasma-scriptengine-qedje + plasma-scriptengine-ruby + plasma-scriptengine-webkit + plasma-scriptengines + plasma-wallpapers-addons + plasma-widget-folderview + plasma-widget-networkmanagement + ruby + sweeper + update-notifier-kde + xscreensaver-data-extra + xscreensaver-gl + xscreensaver-gl-extra + xscreensaver-screensaver-bsod +</p></blockquote> + +<p>Installed using aptitude, removed with apt-get</p> + +<blockquote><p> + ark + google-gadgets-common + google-gadgets-qt + htdig + kate + kdebase-bin + kdebase-data + kdepasswd + kfind + klipper + konq-plugins + konqueror + ksysguard + ksysguardd + libarchive1 + libcln6 + libeet1 + libeina-svn-06 + libggadget-1.0-0b + libggadget-qt-1.0-0b + libgps19 + libkdecorations4 + libkephal4 + libkonq4 + libkonqsidebarplugin4a + libkscreensaver5 + libksgrd4 + libksignalplotter4 + libkunitconversion4 + libkwineffects1a + libmarblewidget4 + libntrack-qt4-1 + libntrack0 + libplasma-geolocation-interface4 + libplasmaclock4a + libplasmagenericshell4 + libprocesscore4a + libprocessui4a + libqalculate5 + libqedje0a + libqtruby4shared2 + libqzion0a + libruby1.8 + libscim8c2a + libsmokekdecore4-3 + libsmokekdeui4-3 + libsmokekfile3 + libsmokekhtml3 + libsmokekio3 + libsmokeknewstuff2-3 + libsmokeknewstuff3-3 + libsmokekparts3 + libsmokektexteditor3 + libsmokekutils3 + libsmokenepomuk3 + libsmokephonon3 + libsmokeplasma3 + libsmokeqtcore4-3 + libsmokeqtdbus4-3 + libsmokeqtgui4-3 + libsmokeqtnetwork4-3 + libsmokeqtopengl4-3 + libsmokeqtscript4-3 + libsmokeqtsql4-3 + libsmokeqtsvg4-3 + libsmokeqttest4-3 + libsmokeqtuitools4-3 + libsmokeqtwebkit4-3 + libsmokeqtxml4-3 + libsmokesolid3 + libsmokesoprano3 + libtaskmanager4a + libtidy-0.99-0 + libweather-ion4a + libxklavier16 + libxxf86misc1 + okteta + oxygencursors + plasma-dataengines-addons + plasma-scriptengine-superkaramba + plasma-widget-lancelot + plasma-widgets-addons + plasma-widgets-workspace + polkit-kde-1 + ruby1.8 + systemsettings + update-notifier-common +</p></blockquote> + +<p>Running apt-get autoremove made the results using apt-get and +aptitude a bit more similar, but there are still quite a lott of +differences. I have no idea what packages should be installed after +the upgrade, but hope those that do can have a look.</p> + + + + + Migrating Xen virtual machines using LVM to KVM using disk images + http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/Migrating_Xen_virtual_machines_using_LVM_to_KVM_using_disk_images.html + http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/Migrating_Xen_virtual_machines_using_LVM_to_KVM_using_disk_images.html + Mon, 22 Nov 2010 11:20:00 +0100 + <p>Most of the computers in use by the +<a href="http://www.skolelinux.org/">Debian Edu/Skolelinux project</a> +are virtual machines. And they have been Xen machines running on a +fairly old IBM eserver xseries 345 machine, and we wanted to migrate +them to KVM on a newer Dell PowerEdge 2950 host machine. This was a +bit harder that it could have been, because we set up the Xen virtual +machines to get the virtual partitions from LVM, which as far as I +know is not supported by KVM. So to migrate, we had to convert +several LVM logical volumes to partitions on a virtual disk file.</p> + +<p>I found +<a href="http://searchnetworking.techtarget.com.au/articles/35011-Six-steps-for-migrating-Xen-virtual-machines-to-KVM">a +nice recipe</a> to do this, and wrote the following script to do the +migration. It uses qemu-img from the qemu package to make the disk +image, parted to partition it, losetup and kpartx to present the disk +image partions as devices, and dd to copy the data. I NFS mounted the +new servers storage area on the old server to do the migration.</p> + +<pre> +#!/bin/sh + +# Based on +# http://searchnetworking.techtarget.com.au/articles/35011-Six-steps-for-migrating-Xen-virtual-machines-to-KVM + +set -e +set -x + +if [ -z "$1" ] ; then + echo "Usage: $0 &lt;hostname&gt;" + exit 1 +else + host="$1" +fi + +if [ ! -e /dev/vg_data/$host-disk ] ; then + echo "error: unable to find LVM volume for $host" + exit 1 +fi + +# Partitions need to be a bit bigger than the LVM LVs. not sure why. +disksize=$( lvs --units m | grep $host-disk | awk '{sum = sum + $4} END { print int(sum * 1.05) }') +swapsize=$( lvs --units m | grep $host-swap | awk '{sum = sum + $4} END { print int(sum * 1.05) }') +totalsize=$(( ( $disksize + $swapsize ) )) + +img=$host.img +#dd if=/dev/zero of=$img bs=1M count=$(( $disksize + $swapsize )) +qemu-img create $img ${totalsize}MMaking room on the Debian Edu/Sqeeze DVD + +parted $img mklabel msdos +parted $img mkpart primary linux-swap 0 $disksize +parted $img mkpart primary ext2 $disksize $totalsize +parted $img set 1 boot on + +modprobe dm-mod +losetup /dev/loop0 $img +kpartx -a /dev/loop0 + +dd if=/dev/vg_data/$host-disk of=/dev/mapper/loop0p1 bs=1M +fsck.ext3 -f /dev/mapper/loop0p1 || true +mkswap /dev/mapper/loop0p2 + +kpartx -d /dev/loop0 +losetup -d /dev/loop0 +</pre> + +<p>The script is perhaps so simple that it is not copyrightable, but +if it is, it is licenced using GPL v2 or later at your discretion.</p> + +<p>After doing this, I booted a Debian CD in rescue mode in KVM with +the new disk image attached, installed grub-pc and linux-image-686 and +set up grub to boot from the disk image. After this, the KVM machines +seem to work just fine.</p> + + + + + Lenny->Squeeze upgrades, apt vs aptitude with the Gnome and KDE desktop + http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/Lenny__Squeeze_upgrades__apt_vs_aptitude_with_the_Gnome_and_KDE_desktop.html + http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/Lenny__Squeeze_upgrades__apt_vs_aptitude_with_the_Gnome_and_KDE_desktop.html + Sat, 20 Nov 2010 22:50:00 +0100 + <p>I'm still running upgrade testing of the +<a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/~pere/debian-upgrade-testing/">Lenny +Gnome and KDE Desktop</a>, but have not had time to spend on reporting the +status. Here is a short update based on a test I ran 20101118.</p> + +<p>I still do not know what a correct migration should look like, so I +report any differences between apt and aptitude and hope someone else +can see if anything should be changed.</p> + +<p>This is for Gnome:</p> + +<p>Installed using apt-get, missing with aptitude</p> + +<blockquote><p> + apache2.2-bin aptdaemon at-spi baobab binfmt-support + browser-plugin-gnash cheese-common cli-common cpp-4.3 cups-pk-helper + dmz-cursor-theme empathy empathy-common finger + freedesktop-sound-theme freeglut3 gconf-defaults-service gdm-themes + gedit-plugins geoclue geoclue-hostip geoclue-localnet geoclue-manual + geoclue-yahoo gnash gnash-common gnome gnome-backgrounds + gnome-cards-data gnome-codec-install gnome-core + gnome-desktop-environment gnome-disk-utility gnome-screenshot + gnome-search-tool gnome-session-canberra gnome-spell + gnome-system-log gnome-themes-extras gnome-themes-more + gnome-user-share gs-common gstreamer0.10-fluendo-mp3 + gstreamer0.10-tools gtk2-engines gtk2-engines-pixbuf + gtk2-engines-smooth hal-info hamster-applet libapache2-mod-dnssd + libapr1 libaprutil1 libaprutil1-dbd-sqlite3 libaprutil1-ldap + libart2.0-cil libatspi1.0-0 libboost-date-time1.42.0 + libboost-python1.42.0 libboost-thread1.42.0 libchamplain-0.4-0 + libchamplain-gtk-0.4-0 libcheese-gtk18 libclutter-gtk-0.10-0 + libcryptui0 libcupsys2 libdiscid0 libeel2-data libelf1 libepc-1.0-2 + libepc-common libepc-ui-1.0-2 libfreerdp-plugins-standard + libfreerdp0 libgail-common libgconf2.0-cil libgdata-common libgdata7 + libgdl-1-common libgdu-gtk0 libgee2 libgeoclue0 libgexiv2-0 libgif4 + libglade2.0-cil libglib2.0-cil libgmime2.4-cil libgnome-vfs2.0-cil + libgnome2.24-cil libgnomepanel2.24-cil libgnomeprint2.2-data + libgnomeprintui2.2-common libgnomevfs2-bin libgpod-common libgpod4 + libgtk2.0-cil libgtkglext1 libgtksourceview-common + libgtksourceview2.0-common libmono-addins-gui0.2-cil + libmono-addins0.2-cil libmono-cairo2.0-cil libmono-corlib2.0-cil + libmono-i18n-west2.0-cil libmono-posix2.0-cil + libmono-security2.0-cil libmono-sharpzip2.84-cil + libmono-system2.0-cil libmtp8 libmusicbrainz3-6 + libndesk-dbus-glib1.0-cil libndesk-dbus1.0-cil libopal3.6.8 + libpolkit-gtk-1-0 libpt-1.10.10-plugins-alsa + libpt-1.10.10-plugins-v4l libpt2.6.7 libpython2.6 librpm1 librpmio1 + libsdl1.2debian libservlet2.4-java libsrtp0 libssh-4 + libtelepathy-farsight0 libtelepathy-glib0 libtidy-0.99-0 + libxalan2-java libxerces2-java media-player-info mesa-utils + mono-2.0-gac mono-gac mono-runtime nautilus-sendto + nautilus-sendto-empathy openoffice.org-writer2latex + openssl-blacklist p7zip p7zip-full pkg-config python-4suite-xml + python-aptdaemon python-aptdaemon-gtk python-axiom + python-beautifulsoup python-bugbuddy python-clientform + python-coherence python-configobj python-crypto python-cupshelpers + python-cupsutils python-eggtrayicon python-elementtree + python-epsilon python-evolution python-feedparser python-gdata + python-gdbm python-gst0.10 python-gtkglext1 python-gtkmozembed + python-gtksourceview2 python-httplib2 python-louie python-mako + python-markupsafe python-mechanize python-nevow python-notify + python-opengl python-openssl python-pam python-pkg-resources + python-pyasn1 python-pysqlite2 python-rdflib python-serial + python-tagpy python-twisted-bin python-twisted-conch + python-twisted-core python-twisted-web python-utidylib python-webkit + python-xdg python-zope.interface remmina remmina-plugin-data + remmina-plugin-rdp remmina-plugin-vnc rhythmbox-plugin-cdrecorder + rhythmbox-plugins rpm-common rpm2cpio seahorse-plugins shotwell + software-center svgalibg1 system-config-printer-udev + telepathy-gabble telepathy-mission-control-5 telepathy-salut tomboy + totem totem-coherence totem-mozilla totem-plugins + transmission-common xdg-user-dirs xdg-user-dirs-gtk xserver-xephyr + zip +</p></blockquote> + +Installed using apt-get, removed with aptitude + +<blockquote><p> + arj bluez-utils cheese dhcdbd djvulibre-desktop ekiga eog + epiphany-extensions epiphany-gecko evolution-exchange + fast-user-switch-applet file-roller gcalctool gconf-editor gdm gedit + gedit-common gnome-app-install gnome-games gnome-games-data + gnome-nettool gnome-system-tools gnome-themes gnome-utils + gnome-vfs-obexftp gnome-volume-manager gnuchess gucharmap + guile-1.8-libs hal libavahi-compat-libdnssd1 libavahi-core5 + libavahi-ui0 libbind9-50 libbluetooth2 libcamel1.2-11 libcdio7 + libcucul0 libcurl3 libdirectfb-1.0-0 libdmx1 libdvdread3 + libedata-cal1.2-6 libedataserver1.2-9 libeel2-2.20 libepc-1.0-1 + libepc-ui-1.0-1 libexchange-storage1.2-3 libfaad0 libgadu3 + libgalago3 libgd2-noxpm libgda3-3 libgda3-common libggz2 libggzcore9 + libggzmod4 libgksu1.2-0 libgksuui1.0-1 libgmyth0 libgnome-desktop-2 + libgnome-pilot2 libgnomecups1.0-1 libgnomeprint2.2-0 + libgnomeprintui2.2-0 libgpod3 libgraphviz4 libgtk-vnc-1.0-0 + libgtkhtml2-0 libgtksourceview1.0-0 libgtksourceview2.0-0 + libgucharmap6 libhesiod0 libicu38 libisccc50 libisccfg50 libiw29 + libjaxp1.3-java-gcj libkpathsea4 liblircclient0 libltdl3 liblwres50 + libmagick++10 libmagick10 libmalaga7 libmozjs1d libmpfr1ldbl libmtp7 + libmysqlclient15off libnautilus-burn4 libneon27 libnm-glib0 + libnm-util0 libopal-2.2 libosp5 libparted1.8-10 libpisock9 + libpisync1 libpoppler-glib3 libpoppler3 libpt-1.10.10 libraw1394-8 + libsdl1.2debian-alsa libsensors3 libsexy2 libsmbios2 libsoup2.2-8 + libspeexdsp1 libssh2-1 libsuitesparse-3.1.0 libsvga1 + libswfdec-0.6-90 libtalloc1 libtotem-plparser10 libtrackerclient0 + libvoikko1 libxalan2-java-gcj libxerces2-java-gcj libxklavier12 + libxtrap6 libxxf86misc1 libzephyr3 mysql-common rhythmbox seahorse + sound-juicer swfdec-gnome system-config-printer totem-common + totem-gstreamer transmission-gtk vinagre vino w3c-dtd-xhtml wodim +</p></blockquote> + +<p>Installed using aptitude, missing with apt-get</p> + +<blockquote><p> + gstreamer0.10-gnomevfs +</p></blockquote> + +<p>Installed using aptitude, removed with apt-get</p> + +<blockquote><p> +[nothing] +</p></blockquote> + +<p>This is for KDE:</p> + +<p>Installed using apt-get, missing with aptitude</p> + +<blockquote><p> + autopoint bomber bovo cantor cantor-backend-kalgebra cpp-4.3 dcoprss + edict espeak espeak-data eyesapplet fifteenapplet finger gettext + ghostscript-x git gnome-audio gnugo granatier gs-common + gstreamer0.10-pulseaudio indi kaddressbook-plugins kalgebra + kalzium-data kanjidic kapman kate-plugins kblocks kbreakout kbstate + kde-icons-mono kdeaccessibility kdeaddons-kfile-plugins + kdeadmin-kfile-plugins kdeartwork-misc kdeartwork-theme-window + kdeedu kdeedu-data kdeedu-kvtml-data kdegames kdegames-card-data + kdegames-mahjongg-data kdegraphics-kfile-plugins kdelirc + kdemultimedia-kfile-plugins kdenetwork-kfile-plugins + kdepim-kfile-plugins kdepim-kio-plugins kdessh kdetoys kdewebdev + kdiamond kdnssd kfilereplace kfourinline kgeography-data kigo + killbots kiriki klettres-data kmoon kmrml knewsticker-scripts + kollision kpf krosspython ksirk ksmserver ksquares kstars-data + ksudoku kubrick kweather libasound2-plugins libboost-python1.42.0 + libcfitsio3 libconvert-binhex-perl libcrypt-ssleay-perl libdb4.6++ + libdjvulibre-text libdotconf1.0 liberror-perl libespeak1 + libfinance-quote-perl libgail-common libgsl0ldbl libhtml-parser-perl + libhtml-tableextract-perl libhtml-tagset-perl libhtml-tree-perl + libio-stringy-perl libkdeedu4 libkdegames5 libkiten4 libkpathsea5 + libkrossui4 libmailtools-perl libmime-tools-perl + libnews-nntpclient-perl libopenbabel3 libportaudio2 libpulse-browse0 + libservlet2.4-java libspeechd2 libtiff-tools libtimedate-perl + libunistring0 liburi-perl libwww-perl libxalan2-java libxerces2-java + lirc luatex marble networkstatus noatun-plugins + openoffice.org-writer2latex palapeli palapeli-data parley + parley-data poster psutils pulseaudio pulseaudio-esound-compat + pulseaudio-module-x11 pulseaudio-utils quanta-data rocs rsync + speech-dispatcher step svgalibg1 texlive-binaries texlive-luatex + ttf-sazanami-gothic +</p></blockquote> + +<p>Installed using apt-get, removed with aptitude</p> + +<blockquote><p> + amor artsbuilder atlantik atlantikdesigner blinken bluez-utils cvs + dhcdbd djvulibre-desktop imlib-base imlib11 kalzium kanagram kandy + kasteroids katomic kbackgammon kbattleship kblackbox kbounce kbruch + kcron kdat kdemultimedia-kappfinder-data kdeprint kdict kdvi kedit + keduca kenolaba kfax kfaxview kfouleggs kgeography kghostview + kgoldrunner khangman khexedit kiconedit kig kimagemapeditor + kitchensync kiten kjumpingcube klatin klettres klickety klines + klinkstatus kmag kmahjongg kmailcvt kmenuedit kmid kmilo kmines + kmousetool kmouth kmplot knetwalk kodo kolf kommander konquest kooka + kpager kpat kpdf kpercentage kpilot kpoker kpovmodeler krec + kregexpeditor kreversi ksame ksayit kshisen ksig ksim ksirc ksirtet + ksmiletris ksnake ksokoban kspaceduel kstars ksvg ksysv kteatime + ktip ktnef ktouch ktron kttsd ktuberling kturtle ktux kuickshow + kverbos kview kviewshell kvoctrain kwifimanager kwin kwin4 kwordquiz + kworldclock kxsldbg libakode2 libarts1-akode libarts1-audiofile + libarts1-mpeglib libarts1-xine libavahi-compat-libdnssd1 + libavahi-core5 libavc1394-0 libbind9-50 libbluetooth2 + libboost-python1.34.1 libcucul0 libcurl3 libcvsservice0 + libdirectfb-1.0-0 libdjvulibre21 libdvdread3 libfaad0 libfreebob0 + libgd2-noxpm libgraphviz4 libgsmme1c2a libgtkhtml2-0 libicu38 + libiec61883-0 libindex0 libisccc50 libisccfg50 libiw29 + libjaxp1.3-java-gcj libk3b3 libkcal2b libkcddb1 libkdeedu3 + libkdegames1 libkdepim1a libkgantt0 libkleopatra1 libkmime2 + libkpathsea4 libkpimexchange1 libkpimidentities1 libkscan1 + libksieve0 libktnef1 liblockdev1 libltdl3 liblwres50 libmagick10 + libmimelib1c2a libmodplug0c2 libmozjs1d libmpcdec3 libmpfr1ldbl + libneon27 libnm-util0 libopensync0 libpisock9 libpoppler-glib3 + libpoppler-qt2 libpoppler3 libraw1394-8 librss1 libsensors3 + libsmbios2 libssh2-1 libsuitesparse-3.1.0 libswfdec-0.6-90 + libtalloc1 libxalan2-java-gcj libxerces2-java-gcj libxtrap6 lskat + mpeglib network-manager-kde noatun pmount tex-common texlive-base + texlive-common texlive-doc-base texlive-fonts-recommended tidy + ttf-dustin ttf-kochi-gothic ttf-sjfonts +</p></blockquote> + +<p>Installed using aptitude, missing with apt-get</p> + +<blockquote><p> + dolphin kde-core kde-plasma-desktop kde-standard kde-window-manager + kdeartwork kdebase kdebase-apps kdebase-workspace + kdebase-workspace-bin kdebase-workspace-data kdeutils kscreensaver + kscreensaver-xsavers libgle3 libkonq5 libkonq5-templates libnetpbm10 + netpbm plasma-widget-folderview plasma-widget-networkmanagement + xscreensaver-data-extra xscreensaver-gl xscreensaver-gl-extra + xscreensaver-screensaver-bsod +</p></blockquote> + +<p>Installed using aptitude, removed with apt-get</p> + +<blockquote><p> + kdebase-bin konq-plugins konqueror +</p></blockquote> + + + + + Gnash buildbot slave and Debian kfreebsd + http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/Gnash_buildbot_slave_and_Debian_kfreebsd.html + http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/Gnash_buildbot_slave_and_Debian_kfreebsd.html + Sat, 20 Nov 2010 07:20:00 +0100 + <p>Answering +<a href="http://www.listware.net/201011/gnash-dev/67431-gnash-dev-buildbot-looking-for-slaves.html">the +call from the Gnash project</a> for +<a href="http://www.gnashdev.org:8010">buildbot</a> slaves to test the +current source, I have set up a virtual KVM machine on the Debian +Edu/Skolelinux virtualization host to test the git source on +Debian/Squeeze. I hope this can help the developers in getting new +releases out more often.</p> + +<p>As the developers want less main-stream build platforms tested to, +I have considered setting up a <a +href="http://www.debian.org/ports/kfreebsd-gnu/">Debian/kfreebsd</a> +machine as well. I have also considered using the kfreebsd +architecture in Debian as a file server in NUUG to get access to the 5 +TB zfs volume we currently use to store DV video. Because of this, I +finally got around to do a test installation of Debian/Squeeze with +kfreebsd. Installation went fairly smooth, thought I noticed some +visual glitches in the cdebconf dialogs (black cursor left on the +screen at random locations). Have not gotten very far with the +testing. Noticed cfdisk did not work, but fdisk did so it was not a +fatal problem. Have to spend some more time on it to see if it is +useful as a file server for NUUG. Will try to find time to set up a +gnash buildbot slave on the Debian Edu/Skolelinux this weekend.</p> + + + + + Nå er 74 norske overvåkningskamera registert i OpenStreetmap.org + http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/N__er_74_norske_overv_kningskamera_registert_i_OpenStreetmap_org.html + http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/N__er_74_norske_overv_kningskamera_registert_i_OpenStreetmap_org.html + Thu, 18 Nov 2010 11:25:00 +0100 + <p>Jeg oppdaterte nettopp kartet med overvåkningskamera som +<a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/Kart_over_overv__kningskamera_i_Norge.html">jeg +startet</a> for ca. et og et halvt år siden, og nå er det 74 kamera på +plass. I prosessen med å oppdatere kartet oppdaget jeg ved en +tilfeldighet at webreferansen til registermeldingen hos Datatilsynet +nå ikke lenger er gyldig (se +<a href="http://hetti.datatilsynet.no/melding/report_view.pl?id=31062">tidligere +melding</a>). Antar Datatilsynet fjerner utdaterte meldinger fra +databasen. Konsekvensen blir at kameraoversikten i OSM må ha med +søkekriteriene som ble brukt for å finne registermeldingen +(dvs. virksomhetsnavn og organisasjonsnummer), slik at eventuelt nye +meldinger for samme kamera kan finnes igjen.</p> + +<p>Det er dukket opp kamera på +<a href="http://people.skolelinux.no/pere/surveillance-norway/">kartet</a> +i Bergensområdet, Stavangerområdet, Osloområdet, Gjøvikområdet og i +Troms. Mange områder og kamera mangler, og jeg er overbevist om at +bare en brøkdel av den enorme mengden kamera som nå finnes i det +offentlige rom er registrert så langt. Instrukser for å legge inn +kamera finnes på websiden for kartet hos +<a href="http://personvern.no/wiki/index.php/Kameraovervåkning">personvernforeningen</a>.</p> + + + + + Gjendikte sangen "Copying Is Not Theft" på Norsk? + http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/Gjendikte_sangen__Copying_Is_Not_Theft__p__Norsk_.html + http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/Gjendikte_sangen__Copying_Is_Not_Theft__p__Norsk_.html + Wed, 10 Nov 2010 14:40:00 +0100 + <p>En genial liten sang om kopiering og tyveri er +<a href="http://www.archive.org/details/CopyingIsNotTheft">Copying Is +Not Theft</a> av Nina Paley. Den vil jeg at +<a href="http://www.nuug.no/">NUUG</a> skal sende på +<a href="http://www.frikanalen.no/">Frikanalen</a>, men først må vi +fikse norske undertekster eller dubbing. Og i og med at det er en +sang, tror jeg den kanskje bør gjendiktes. + +Selve teksten finner en på bloggen til +<a href="http://blog.ninapaley.com/2009/12/15/minute-meme-1-copying-is-not-theft/">tekstforfatteren</a> og den ser slik ut: + +<p><blockquote> +<p>Copying is not theft. +<br>Stealing a thing leaves one less left +<br>Copying it makes one thing more; +<br>that's what copying's for.</p> + +<p>Copying is not theft. +<br>If I copy yours you have it too +<br>One for me and one for you +<br>That's what copies can do</p> + +<p>If I steal your bicycle +<br>you have to take the bus, +<br>but if I just copy it +<br>there's one for each of us!</p> + +<p>Making more of a thing, +<br>that is what we call "copying" +<br>Sharing ideas with everyone +<br>That's why copying +<br>is +<br>FUN!</p> +</blockquote></p> + +<p>Her er et naivt forsøk på oversettelse, uten noe forsøk på +gjendiktning eller få det til å flyte sammen med melodien.</p> + +<p><blockquote> +<p>Kopiering er ikke tyveri. +<br>Stjeler du en ting er det en mindre igjen +<br>Kopier den og det er ting til. +<br>det er derfor vi har kopiering.</p> + +<p>Kopiering er ikke tyveri. +<br>Hvis jeg kopierer din så har du den fortsatt +<br>En for meg og en for deg. +<br>Det er det kopier gir oss</p> + +<p>Hvis jeg stjeler sykkelen din +<br>så må du ta bussen, +<br>men hvis jeg bare kopierer den, +<br>så får vi hver vår!</p> + +<p>Lage mer av en ting, +<br>det er det vi kaller "kopiering". +<br>Deler ideer med enhver +<br>Det er derfor kopiering +<br>er +<br>MORSOMT!</p> +</blockquote></p> + +<p>Hvis du har forslag til bedre oversettelse eller lyst til å bidra +til å få denne sangen over i norsk språkdrakt, ta kontakt med video +(at) nuug.no.</p> + + + + + Debian in 3D + http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/Debian_in_3D.html + http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/Debian_in_3D.html + Tue, 9 Nov 2010 16:10:00 +0100 + <p><img src="http://thingiverse-production.s3.amazonaws.com/renders/23/e0/c4/f9/2b/debswagtdose_preview_medium.jpg"></p> + +<p>3D printing is just great. I just came across this Debian logo in +3D linked in from +<a href="http://blog.thingiverse.com/2010/11/09/participatory-branding/">the +thingiverse blog</a>.</p> Datatilsynet mangler verktøyet som trengs for å kontrollere kameraovervåkning - http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/Datatilsynet_mangler_verkt__yet_som_trengs_for____kontrollere_kameraoverv__kning.html - http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/Datatilsynet_mangler_verkt__yet_som_trengs_for____kontrollere_kameraoverv__kning.html + http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/Datatilsynet_mangler_verkt_yet_som_trengs_for___kontrollere_kameraoverv_kning.html + http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/Datatilsynet_mangler_verkt_yet_som_trengs_for___kontrollere_kameraoverv_kning.html Tue, 9 Nov 2010 14:35:00 +0100 - -<p>En stund tilbake ble jeg oppmerksom på at Datatilsynets verktøy for + <p>En stund tilbake ble jeg oppmerksom på at Datatilsynets verktøy for å holde rede på overvåkningskamera i Norge ikke var egnet til annet enn å lage statistikk, og ikke kunne brukes for å kontrollere om et overvåkningskamera i det offentlige rom er lovlig satt opp og @@ -211,17 +1127,83 @@ ting, så et slikt lovverk i Norge tror jeg hadde vært nyttig.</p> - Debian in 3D - http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/Debian_in_3D.html - http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/Debian_in_3D.html - Tue, 9 Nov 2010 16:10:00 +0100 - -<p><img src="http://thingiverse-production.s3.amazonaws.com/renders/23/e0/c4/f9/2b/debswagtdose_preview_medium.jpg"></p> + Making room on the Debian Edu/Sqeeze DVD + http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/Making_room_on_the_Debian_Edu_Sqeeze_DVD.html + http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/Making_room_on_the_Debian_Edu_Sqeeze_DVD.html + Sun, 7 Nov 2010 11:45:00 +0100 + <p>Prioritising packages for the Debian Edu / +<a href="http://www.skolelinux.org/">Skolelinux</a> DVD, which is +supposed provide a school with all the services and user applications +needed on the pupils computer network has always been hard. Even +schools without Internet connections should be able to get Debian Edu +working using this DVD.</p> -<p>3D printing is just great. I just came across this Debian logo in -3D linked in from -<a href="http://blog.thingiverse.com/2010/11/09/participatory-branding/">the -thingiverse blog</a>.</p> +<p>The job became a lot harder when apt and aptitude started +installing recommended packages by default. We want the same set of +packages to be installed when using the DVD and the netinst CD, and +that means all recommended packages need to be on the DVD. I created +a patch for debian-cd in <a href="http://bugs.debian.org/601203">BTS +report #601203</a> to do this, and since this change was applied to +the Debian Edu DVD build, we have been seriously short on space.</p> + +<p>A few days ago we decided to drop blender, wxmaxima and kicad from +the default installation to save space on the DVD, believing that +those needing these applications are few and can get them from the +Debian archive.</p> + +<p>Yesterday, I had a look what source packages to see which packages +were using most space. A few large packages are well know; +openoffice.org, openclipart and fluid-soundfont. But I also +discovered that lilypond used 106 MiB and fglrx-driver used 53 MiB. +The lilypond package is pulled in as a dependency for rosegarden, and +when looking a bit closer I discovered that 99 MiB of the 106 MiB were +the documentation package, which is recommended by the binary package. +I decided to drop this documentation package from our DVD, as most of +our users will use the GUI front-ends and do not need the lilypond +documentation. Similarly, I dropped the non-free fglrx-driver package +which might be installed by d-i when its hardware is detected, as the +free X driver should work.</p> + +<p>With this change, we finally got space for the LXDE and Gnome +desktop packages as well as the language specific packages making the +DVD more useful again.</p> + + + + + Norgeskartet på mange vis - via OpenStreetmap.org + http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/Norgeskartet_p__mange_vis___via_OpenStreetmap_org.html + http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/Norgeskartet_p__mange_vis___via_OpenStreetmap_org.html + Mon, 1 Nov 2010 11:15:00 +0100 + <p>Har oppdaget at mange ikke er klar over at OpenStreetmap.org er +tilgjengelig i en rekke forskjellige formater. Her er en liste med +eksporter jeg kjenner til for Norge, for de som trenger et +fribrukskart til sine tjenester:</p> + +<p><ul> + +<li>Cloudmade tilbyr OSM XML, Garmin Map Files, Osmosis country +bounding polygon, Shapefile, Navit maps, GPX POI, TomTom POI og OSM +XML feature extracts via +<a href="http://downloads.cloudmade.com/europe/norway">sine +nedlastingssider</a>.</li> + +<li>Geofabric tilbyr +<a href="http://download.geofabrik.de/osm/europe/norway.osm.bz2">OSM +XML</a>, +<a href="http://download.geofabrik.de/osm/europe/norway.osm.pbf">OSM +protobuf binærformat</a> og +<a href="http://download.geofabrik.de/osm/europe/norway.shp.zip">ESRI +Shapefile (EPSG:4326)</a> fra sine nedlastingssider.</li> + +<li>Frikart.no tilbyr +<a href="http://www.frikart.no/garmin/">Garmin-kart</a> i uike +varianter for veibruk og turbruk sommer og vinter.</li> + +</ul></p> + +<p>Kartene oppdateres regelmessig, som oftest hver uke. Det skulle +dermed være noe for enhver smak.</p>