blog/Debian_Edu_interview__Shirish_Agarwal.html

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   6     <title>Petter Reinholdtsen: Debian Edu interview: Shirish Agarwal</title>
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  14  <h1>
  15      <a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/">Petter Reinholdtsen</a>
  16
  17  </h1>
  18
  19 </div>
  20
  21
  22     <div class="entry">
  23       <div class="title">Debian Edu interview: Shirish Agarwal</div>
  24       <div class="date"> 6th April 2015</div>
  25       <div class="body"><p>It was a surprise to me to learn that the computer system for
  26 schools I've involved in, <a href="http://www.skolelinux.org/">Debian
  27 Edu / Skolelinux</a>, was being used in India.  But apparently it is,
  28 and I managed to get an interview with one of the friends of the
  29 project there, Shirish Agarwal.</p>
  30
  31 <p><strong>Who are you, and how do you spend your days?</strong></p>
  32
  33 <p>My name is Shirish Agarwal. Based out of the educational and
  34 historical city of Pune, from the western state of Maharashtra, India.
  35 My bread comes from giving training, giving policy tips,
  36 installations on free software to mom and pop shops in different
  37 fields from Desktop publishing to retail shops as well as work with
  38 few software start-ups as well.</p>
  39
  40 <p><strong>How did you get in contact with the Skolelinux / Debian Edu
  41 project?</strong></p>
  42
  43 <p>It started innocently enough. I have been using Debian for a few
  44 years and in one local minidebconf / debutsav I was asked if there was
  45 anything for schools or education. I had worked / played with free
  46 educational softwares such as Gcompris and Stellarium for my many
  47 nieces and nephews so researched and found Debian Edu or Skolelinux as
  48 it was known then.  Since then I have started using the various
  49 education meta-packages provided by the project.
  50
  51 <p><strong>What do you see as the advantages of Skolelinux / Debian
  52 Edu?</strong></p>
  53
  54 <p>It's closest I have seen where a package full of educational
  55 software are packed, which are free and open (both literally and
  56 figuratively).  Even if I take the simplest software which is
  57 gcompris, the number of activities therein are amazing. Another one of
  58 the softwares that I have liked for a long time is stellarium. Even
  59 pysycache is cool except for couple of issues I encountered
  60 <a href="https://bugs.debian.org/781841">#781841</a> and
  61 <a href="https://bugs.debian.org/781842">#781842</a>.</p>
  62
  63 <p>I prefer software installed on the system over web based solutions,
  64 as a web site can disappear any time but the software on disk has the
  65 possibility of a larger life span.  Of course with both it's more a
  66 question if it has enough users who make it fun or sustainable or both
  67 for the developer per-se.</p>
  68
  69 <p><strong>What do you see as the disadvantages of Skolelinux / Debian
  70 Edu?</strong></p>
  71
  72 <p>I do see that the Debian Edu team seems to be short-handed and I
  73 think more efforts should be made to make it popular and ask and take
  74 help from people and the larger community wherever possible.</p>
  75
  76 <p>I don't see any disadvantage to use Skolelinux apart from the fact
  77 that most apps. are generic which is good or bad how you see it.
  78 However, saying that I do acknowledge the fact that the canvas is
  79 pretty big and there are lot of interesting ideas that could be done
  80 but for reasons not known not done or if done I don't know about them.
  81 Let me share some of the ideas (these are more upstream based but
  82 still) I have had for a long time :</p>
  83
  84 <p>1. Classical maths question of two trains in opposing directions
  85 each running @x kmph/mph at y distance, when they will meet and how
  86 far would each travel and similar questions like these.
  87
  88 <p>The computer is a fantastic system where questions like these can
  89 be drawn, animated and the methodology and answers teased out in
  90 interactive manner. While sites such as the
  91 <a href="http://mathforum.org/dr.math/faq/faq.two.trains.html">Ask
  92 Dr. Math FAQ on The Two Trains problem</a> (as an example or point of
  93 inspiration) can be used there is lot more that can be done.  I dunno
  94 if there is a free software which does something like this.  The idea
  95 being a blend of objects + animation + interaction which does
  96 this. The whole interaction could be gamified with points or sounds or
  97 colourful celebration whenever the user gets even part of the question
  98 or/and methodology right. That would help reinforce good behaviour.
  99 This understanding could be used to share/showcase everything from how
 100 the first wheel came to be, to evolution to how astronomy started,
 101 psychics and everything in-between.</p>
 102
 103 <p>One specific idea in the train part was having the Linux mascot on
 104 one train and the BSD or GNU mascot on the other train and they
 105 meeting somewhere in-between. Characters from blender movies could
 106 also be used.</p>
 107
 108 <p>2. Loads of crossword-puzzles with reference to subjects: We have
 109 enormous data sets in Wikipedia and Wikitionary.  I don't think it
 110 should be a big job to design crossword puzzles. Using categories and
 111 sub-categories it should be doable to have Q&A single word answers
 112 from the existing data-sets. What would make it easy or hard could be
 113 the length of the word + existence of many or few vowels depending on
 114 the user's input.</p>
 115
 116 <p>3. Jigsaw puzzles - We already have a great software called
 117 palapeli with number of slicers making it pretty interesting. What
 118 needs to be done is to download large number of public domain and
 119 copyleft images, tease and use IPTC tags to categorise them into
 120 nature, history etc.  and let it loose. This could turn to be really
 121 huge collection of images. One source could be taken from
 122 commons.wikimedia.org, others could be huge collection of royalty-free
 123 stock photos. Potential is immense.</p>
 124
 125 <p>Apart from this, free software suffers in two directions, we lag
 126 both in development (of using new features per-se) and maintenance a
 127 lot.  This is more so in educational software as these applications
 128 need to be timely and the opportunity cost of missing deadlines is
 129 immense. If we are able to solve issues of funding for development and
 130 maintenance of such software I don't see any big difficulties. I know
 131 of few start-ups in and around India who would love to develop and
 132 maintain such software if funding issues could be solved.</p>
 133
 134 <p><strong>Which free software do you use daily?</strong></p>
 135
 136 <p>That would be huge list. Some of the softwares are obviously apt,
 137 aptitude, debdelta, leafpad, the shell of course (zsh nowadays),
 138 quassel for IRC. In games I use shisen-sho while card-games are evenly
 139 between kpat and Aiselriot.  In desktops it's a tie between
 140 gnome-flashback and mate.</p>
 141
 142 <p><strong>Which strategy do you believe is the right one to use to
 143 get schools to use free software?</strong></p>
 144
 145 <p>I think it should first start with using specific FOSS apps. in
 146 whatever environment they are. If it's MS-Windows or Mac so be it.
 147 Once they are habitual with the apps. and there is buy-in from the
 148 school management then it could be installed anywhere. Most of the
 149 people now understand the concept of a repository because of the
 150 various online stores so it isn't hard to convince on that front.</p>
 151
 152 <p>What is harder is having enough people with technical skills and
 153 passion to service them. If you get buy-in from one or two teachers
 154 then ideas like above could also be asked to be done as a project as
 155 well.</p>
 156
 157 <p>I think where we fall short more than anything is in marketing. For
 158 instance, Debian has this whole range of fonts in its archive but
 159 there isn't even a page where all those different fonts in the La
 160 Ipsum format could be tried out for newcomers.</p>
 161
 162 <p>One of the issues faced constantly in installations is with updates
 163 and upgrades.  People have this myth that each update and upgrade
 164 means the user interface will / has to change. I have seen this
 165 innumerable times.  That perhaps is one of the reasons which browsers
 166 like Iceweasel / Firefox change user interfaces so much, not because
 167 it might be needed or be functional but because people believe that
 168 changed user interfaces are better. This, can easily be pointed with
 169 the user interfaces changed with almost every MS-Windows and Mac OS
 170 releases.</p>
 171
 172 <p>The problems with Debian Edu for deployment are many. The biggest
 173 is the huge gap between what is taught in schools and what Debian Edu
 174 is aimed at.
 175
 176 <p>Me and my friends did teach on week-ends in a government school for
 177 around 2 years, and
 178 <a href="https://flossexperiences.wordpress.com/2012/10/08/sharings/">gathered
 179 some experience</a> there.  Some of the things we learnt/discovered
 180 there was :</p>
 181
 182 <ol>
 183
 184   <li>Most of the teachers are very territorial about their subjects
 185    and they do not want you to teach anything out of the
 186    portion/syllabus given.</li>
 187
 188   <li>They want any activity on the system in accordance to whatever
 189    is in the syllabus.</li>
 190
 191   <li>There are huge barriers both with the English language and at
 192    times with objects or whatever. An example, let's say in gcompris
 193    you have objects falling down and you have to name them and let's
 194    say the falling object is a hat or a fedora hat, this would not be
 195    as recognizable as say a
 196    <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puneri_Pagadi">Puneri
 197    Pagdi</a> so there is need to inject local objects, words wherever
 198    possible. Especially for word-games there are so many hindi words
 199    which have become part of english vocabulary (for instance in
 200    parley), those could be made into a hinglish collection or
 201    something but that is something for upstream to do.</li>
 202
 203 </ol>
 204 </div>
 205
 206       <div class="tags">Tags: <a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/tags/debian edu">debian edu</a>, <a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/tags/english">english</a>, <a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/tags/intervju">intervju</a>.</div>
 207
 208
 209     </div>
 210
 211
 212
 213
 214     <div id="sidebar">
 215
 216
 217
 218 <h2>Archive</h2>
 219 <ul>
 220
 221 <li>2015
 222 <ul>
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 224 <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/archive/2015/01/">January (7)</a></li>
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 229
 230 <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/archive/2015/04/">April (3)</a></li>
 231
 232 </ul></li>
 233
 234 <li>2014
 235 <ul>
 236
 237 <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/archive/2014/01/">January (2)</a></li>
 238
 239 <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/archive/2014/02/">February (3)</a></li>
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 256
 257 <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/archive/2014/11/">November (3)</a></li>
 258
 259 <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/archive/2014/12/">December (5)</a></li>
 260
 261 </ul></li>
 262
 263 <li>2013
 264 <ul>
 265
 266 <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/archive/2013/01/">January (11)</a></li>
 267
 268 <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/archive/2013/02/">February (9)</a></li>
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 273
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 276 <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/archive/2013/06/">June (10)</a></li>
 277
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 279
 280 <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/archive/2013/08/">August (3)</a></li>
 281
 282 <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/archive/2013/09/">September (5)</a></li>
 283
 284 <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/archive/2013/10/">October (7)</a></li>
 285
 286 <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/archive/2013/11/">November (9)</a></li>
 287
 288 <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/archive/2013/12/">December (3)</a></li>
 289
 290 </ul></li>
 291
 292 <li>2012
 293 <ul>
 294
 295 <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/archive/2012/01/">January (7)</a></li>
 296
 297 <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/archive/2012/02/">February (10)</a></li>
 298
 299 <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/archive/2012/03/">March (17)</a></li>
 300
 301 <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/archive/2012/04/">April (12)</a></li>
 302
 303 <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/archive/2012/05/">May (12)</a></li>
 304
 305 <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/archive/2012/06/">June (20)</a></li>
 306
 307 <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/archive/2012/07/">July (17)</a></li>
 308
 309 <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/archive/2012/08/">August (6)</a></li>
 310
 311 <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/archive/2012/09/">September (9)</a></li>
 312
 313 <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/archive/2012/10/">October (17)</a></li>
 314
 315 <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/archive/2012/11/">November (10)</a></li>
 316
 317 <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/archive/2012/12/">December (7)</a></li>
 318
 319 </ul></li>
 320
 321 <li>2011
 322 <ul>
 323
 324 <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/archive/2011/01/">January (16)</a></li>
 325
 326 <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/archive/2011/02/">February (6)</a></li>
 327
 328 <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/archive/2011/03/">March (6)</a></li>
 329
 330 <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/archive/2011/04/">April (7)</a></li>
 331
 332 <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/archive/2011/05/">May (3)</a></li>
 333
 334 <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/archive/2011/06/">June (2)</a></li>
 335
 336 <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/archive/2011/07/">July (7)</a></li>
 337
 338 <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/archive/2011/08/">August (6)</a></li>
 339
 340 <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/archive/2011/09/">September (4)</a></li>
 341
 342 <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/archive/2011/10/">October (2)</a></li>
 343
 344 <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/archive/2011/11/">November (3)</a></li>
 345
 346 <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/archive/2011/12/">December (1)</a></li>
 347
 348 </ul></li>
 349
 350 <li>2010
 351 <ul>
 352
 353 <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/archive/2010/01/">January (2)</a></li>
 354
 355 <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/archive/2010/02/">February (1)</a></li>
 356
 357 <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/archive/2010/03/">March (3)</a></li>
 358
 359 <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/archive/2010/04/">April (3)</a></li>
 360
 361 <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/archive/2010/05/">May (9)</a></li>
 362
 363 <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/archive/2010/06/">June (14)</a></li>
 364
 365 <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/archive/2010/07/">July (12)</a></li>
 366
 367 <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/archive/2010/08/">August (13)</a></li>
 368
 369 <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/archive/2010/09/">September (7)</a></li>
 370
 371 <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/archive/2010/10/">October (9)</a></li>
 372
 373 <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/archive/2010/11/">November (13)</a></li>
 374
 375 <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/archive/2010/12/">December (12)</a></li>
 376
 377 </ul></li>
 378
 379 <li>2009
 380 <ul>
 381
 382 <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/archive/2009/01/">January (8)</a></li>
 383
 384 <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/archive/2009/02/">February (8)</a></li>
 385
 386 <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/archive/2009/03/">March (12)</a></li>
 387
 388 <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/archive/2009/04/">April (10)</a></li>
 389
 390 <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/archive/2009/05/">May (9)</a></li>
 391
 392 <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/archive/2009/06/">June (3)</a></li>
 393
 394 <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/archive/2009/07/">July (4)</a></li>
 395
 396 <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/archive/2009/08/">August (3)</a></li>
 397
 398 <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/archive/2009/09/">September (1)</a></li>
 399
 400 <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/archive/2009/10/">October (2)</a></li>
 401
 402 <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/archive/2009/11/">November (3)</a></li>
 403
 404 <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/archive/2009/12/">December (3)</a></li>
 405
 406 </ul></li>
 407
 408 <li>2008
 409 <ul>
 410
 411 <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/archive/2008/11/">November (5)</a></li>
 412
 413 <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/archive/2008/12/">December (7)</a></li>
 414
 415 </ul></li>
 416
 417 </ul>
 418
 419
 420
 421 <h2>Tags</h2>
 422 <ul>
 423
 424  <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/tags/3d-printer">3d-printer (13)</a></li>
 425
 426  <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/tags/amiga">amiga (1)</a></li>
 427
 428  <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/tags/aros">aros (1)</a></li>
 429
 430  <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/tags/bankid">bankid (4)</a></li>
 431
 432  <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/tags/bitcoin">bitcoin (8)</a></li>
 433
 434  <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/tags/bootsystem">bootsystem (15)</a></li>
 435
 436  <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/tags/bsa">bsa (2)</a></li>
 437
 438  <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/tags/chrpath">chrpath (2)</a></li>
 439
 440  <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/tags/debian">debian (109)</a></li>
 441
 442  <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/tags/debian edu">debian edu (152)</a></li>
 443
 444  <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/tags/digistan">digistan (10)</a></li>
 445
 446  <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/tags/dld">dld (15)</a></li>
 447
 448  <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/tags/docbook">docbook (13)</a></li>
 449
 450  <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/tags/drivstoffpriser">drivstoffpriser (4)</a></li>
 451
 452  <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/tags/english">english (274)</a></li>
 453
 454  <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/tags/fiksgatami">fiksgatami (23)</a></li>
 455
 456  <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/tags/fildeling">fildeling (12)</a></li>
 457
 458  <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/tags/freeculture">freeculture (15)</a></li>
 459
 460  <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/tags/freedombox">freedombox (9)</a></li>
 461
 462  <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/tags/frikanalen">frikanalen (14)</a></li>
 463
 464  <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/tags/intervju">intervju (42)</a></li>
 465
 466  <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/tags/isenkram">isenkram (10)</a></li>
 467
 468  <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/tags/kart">kart (19)</a></li>
 469
 470  <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/tags/ldap">ldap (9)</a></li>
 471
 472  <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/tags/lenker">lenker (8)</a></li>
 473
 474  <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/tags/lsdvd">lsdvd (2)</a></li>
 475
 476  <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/tags/ltsp">ltsp (1)</a></li>
 477
 478  <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/tags/mesh network">mesh network (8)</a></li>
 479
 480  <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/tags/multimedia">multimedia (32)</a></li>
 481
 482  <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/tags/norsk">norsk (260)</a></li>
 483
 484  <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/tags/nuug">nuug (176)</a></li>
 485
 486  <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/tags/offentlig innsyn">offentlig innsyn (16)</a></li>
 487
 488  <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/tags/open311">open311 (2)</a></li>
 489
 490  <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/tags/opphavsrett">opphavsrett (51)</a></li>
 491
 492  <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/tags/personvern">personvern (83)</a></li>
 493
 494  <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/tags/raid">raid (1)</a></li>
 495
 496  <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/tags/reactos">reactos (1)</a></li>
 497
 498  <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/tags/reprap">reprap (11)</a></li>
 499
 500  <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/tags/rfid">rfid (3)</a></li>
 501
 502  <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/tags/robot">robot (9)</a></li>
 503
 504  <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/tags/rss">rss (1)</a></li>
 505
 506  <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/tags/ruter">ruter (4)</a></li>
 507
 508  <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/tags/scraperwiki">scraperwiki (2)</a></li>
 509
 510  <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/tags/sikkerhet">sikkerhet (41)</a></li>
 511
 512  <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/tags/sitesummary">sitesummary (4)</a></li>
 513
 514  <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/tags/skepsis">skepsis (4)</a></li>
 515
 516  <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/tags/standard">standard (46)</a></li>
 517
 518  <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/tags/stavekontroll">stavekontroll (3)</a></li>
 519
 520  <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/tags/stortinget">stortinget (9)</a></li>
 521
 522  <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/tags/surveillance">surveillance (30)</a></li>
 523
 524  <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/tags/sysadmin">sysadmin (2)</a></li>
 525
 526  <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/tags/usenix">usenix (2)</a></li>
 527
 528  <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/tags/valg">valg (8)</a></li>
 529
 530  <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/tags/video">video (50)</a></li>
 531
 532  <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/tags/vitenskap">vitenskap (4)</a></li>
 533
 534  <li><a href="http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/tags/web">web (35)</a></li>
 535
 536 </ul>
 537
 538
 539     </div>
 540     <p style="text-align: right">
 541  Created by <a href="http://steve.org.uk/Software/chronicle">Chronicle v4.6</a>
 542 </p>
 543
 544   </body>
 545 </html>